How has DIY shaped your view of commercial pedals

[fpaul]

Early 80s, I spend about 80 bucks for a D+  and 200 bucks for a DM-2.  I open them up and think "man, this is ridiculous prices for a few cent worth of components.  I wish I knew how to make these".

Now, I do know how to make these.  I have alot more appreciation for the work that goes in to putting these into small boxes.  But 80 bucks in 1982 is worth several hundred in 2010.  80 bucks WAS ridiculous.  However, MXR apparently still went bankrupt.  So maybe not so much.

My main reason to get into DIY was because I bought  a BOSS DS-1 for $39 and found it almost unusable.  I was trying to get a sound I got using a friends 50watt plexi I used for a while. I decided to make my own until I found a sound I liked.  I spent about 600 bucks making pedals.  I never found a sound I was satisfied with.  I then spend about 550 making my marshall plexi clone.  Now, I use my marshall clone slaved with a line out, cry baby wah my parents bought for me in the 70s for a ridiculous price(modified with true bypass and output buffer), a ggg 60's germanium fuzz face clone, and a PT80 delay for my main sound with a neovibe clone (or phase 90 clone), ADA flanger clone, and Boss CE-2 clone for a little variety.  I'm pretty happy with my sound now, using single coil strat instead of LS6 humbucker I used for so many years.  I smile every time I play;single coil with balls. I spent a ridiculous amout of money.  But I live in the USA; I work a ridiculous amount of hours and pay ridiculous taxes.  If I tried to get this sound by going to guitar center, maybe I could never do it (I've never used a POD, so I don't know about that).  It would cost me thousands to buy the gear I have at guitar center, and I could not/would not do that.

[rockhorst]

I come back to DIY guitar stuff every once in a while, but I need to be 'in the mood'. I built a guitar from parts, a TS clone and boosters so far. Probably the only thing I will claim not to ever buy commercially is the latter. And I'll never have to send my guitar off for a tune up or replacing pick ups.

Boosters are some of the most mojoed up pedals IMO, while there's really not that much going on. They are worth the time building yourself, quick and easy. TS clones and distortions too, but it's not always worth the hassle for me. I basically love the fact that I can take my clone and mod it to death and if in the end it breaks down because of it, I've at least learned something without ruining any resale value.

Just today, I had a big attack of GAS (esp. considering I bought an amp yesterday!) and got a Jekyll&Hyde, while I've had a 'double pedal' project lying around for months. At its price point, and in need/want of a quick fix, it's pretty unbeatable. The DIY thing just helps me understand what goes into pedals and what is worth the money. And every once in a while you think up something that just isn't available commercially and you have the know how to do it.

[boog]

i look at the two (DIY / commercial) as parallels; to echo previous comments, i can't see myself ever buyin a boost pedal. jack orman's mini-boost is amazing & and i can build an lpb-1, including drilling the enclosure, in about an hour. for dirt boxes, i usually default to my amps od channels so i've never had much of a use for them. nor the FF. but the muff is, for me, a little different since just about everyone of those things sounds different. so i'll continue to purchase and build those things.
i said that i see diy/comm. as parallels cuz of this: i have built phasers and bought phasers, built & bought envelope filters. i use a factory small stone cuz i like it more than my diy phase 90; my bass player uses my diy ef-440 and not any of the other filters we've bought. some things just sound right; diy gives you another avenue. when it comes to tone, cost is not a factor (though it can be an obstacle if the heat bill needs paying), i want my guitar to sound 'right'.

[FlyingZ]

I find really good pedals require less then the typical wholesale 20% tolerances. I failed in a modest attempt to accurately clone an 80's ts9 with standard components. That failed endeavor was 1.5% over retail.

IMO Boutique manufactures inflate their prices or "assumed value" hoping to fool enough people to make a living without mom. Most commercial companies (successful boutiquers) have one good less then 20% tolerance design then use that name recognition to spam fail. It's all good, just business.

[zambo]

I am obsessed with good distortion sounds. Joining this community has helped me with tonesmithing in general. I am still searching but getting closer. I heard the seymore duncan twin tube the other day and I got to tell you...it did things for me. I might have to buy one cause I think its the pedal we will all be wishing we had bought back when they were only a couple hundred bucks.....
I would buy any of the funky pedals I see just to have them i think. Everything has a place and a purpose that you just cant always duplicate. Like trying to make resturaunt food at home. Try as I might I just cant make an exact replica of Jack in the Box tacos.....just got to buy em...

[markeebee]

Yeah, Zambo, the food analogy works for me.

I really enjoy baking a cake now and then.  It's ok, I'm metrosexual, it's allowed.  My cake might not be any better than one you can buy in a shop, especially the really expensive ones, but I'll do it anyway because I enjoy it.

Hold on, I'm on a roll now.

The funny thing is that fancy expensive hand-made gateux are closer to my own shit than the cheap mass produced ones.  Sound familiar?  But you know what you're getting with a Sarah Lee.

No, sorry, lost it now......

[Hides-His-Eyes]

Today I baked a cake for the lady. It was shaped like a heart, but it crumbled when I tried to take it out the tin. She still loved it.

I guess what I'm saying is my girlfriend is a lot more forgiving when it comes to cake than I am when it comes to effects.

[zambo]

lol....ok sorry to derail. Add an extra egg to any cake mix and its sticks together and holds more moisture. Also for chocolate, substitute the water for really strong coffe. Makes a dam fine cake. Yes, I even modify my cake mixes.....I guess diy has shaped every aspect of life...

[phector2004]

I've heard that formaldehyde preserving corpses makes anatomy grad students hungry.

Does rosin smoke give people the urge to bake?
Time to buy an apron!

[cab42]

If it wasn't for DIY I wouldn't have any effects at all!

Who can justify buying all those pedals.......but if I'm building them.....My wife thinks I'm a genius!!!

She doesn't care about the money I spend building......it's my hobby! I'm learning stuff and my 7 year old loves when I build "Technologie Stuff" like he calls it! I can pass this love of building and learning and figuring things out down to him and that is great!

Yes I could go out and get one or two Zoom pedals that would do all I really need to play! But what's the fun in that! Anybody can do that!

I couldn't have said it much better.

However, after have been building everything my self (except for a boss flanger and delay), I have considered buying stuff, just to have a reference. I had never tried a compressor before I built an orange squeezer and a flatline. I really like the sounds both makes, but I really have no idea how a compressor should sound.

Regards

Carsten

[askwho69]

DIY help the industries to grow " electronic companies"

reasons

1. ordinary DIY getting addict everytime rick holt posted new unique items, like me when i saw anew project im excited and get to the store and orde some stuff and try t.

2. the commercial pedals are getting bigger not just boss and ibanez but also the pass DIYers and go for commercial also.

3. ohh my baby is wake up need to feed em !! nyahahaha


A2

[Zapp Brannigan]

Well, I didn't read all 3 pages, except may be a couple of replies, so.... I can say one thing - all my pedalboard completely consists of DIY stuff, including amplifier and partly guitar (ha-ha, I ripped  it out and filled with new guts ). I see no reason to buy for a  good deal of money a thing which is built and sounds worse than my ugly creation (yes, I do not care of how it looks outside). And guys, the greatest thing is that I enjoy the very process of building amps and stompboxes, so why should I buy a stombox built by someone and somewhere no one knows where and how?

[jasperoosthoek]

Finally someone who also doesn't care what his ugly creation looks like. Currenly all my effects but one are in the same white boxes. I recognise my Fuzz Face by being cross eyed (knobs closer together).

Only when I have so much money and so little time that I cannot afford the time will I spend the money on something 'Boutique'. (Hate that word)
But I doubt that day will ever come...

[petemoore]

  It's only caused them to appear slightly skewed.

[PaulC]

The only ones who whine about it are snake oil salesmen and those who equate building an overdrive to curing cancer.

I've done my share of "whining", but I never thought of myself as a snake oil salesman or cancer specialist.  I always thought of myself as a guy who makes simple/cheap pedals, and never understood why so many guys in diy bashed me for it while wanting to clone what I make.  It's not about letting the "secret" out of the bag so much for me.  It's more about the BS drama that comes along with the guys who like to let out the secrets!



PaulC
tim/timmy pedals
myspace.com/paulcaudio

[Transmogrifox]

Some people do crossword puzzles.  Some are masters of Sudoku, or get together to challenge each other in a game of pinochle.

I design, build, tweak, play with electronics that do crazy things to the sound of a musical instrument.  It's mentally stimulating and keeps me sharp.

I think this has played into my growing feeling about commercial industry in general:  We the people are being trained by our society to be merely consumers.  It isn't a conspiracy, but only a consequence.  Commercial products fill a gap, and meet a need.  I buy them and use them when my time is more valuable than the money spent to buy it, while any customized features I would add for myself are of low value.  Certainly it is a judgment one must make each time presented with the question "build or buy?".  Consumerism happens as a consequence of our propensity to follow the path of least resistance.  The natural inclination is to lay in the lay-z-boy with a remote determined that it's time to let that money work instead.  Too much of that and we become weak-minded and incapable of thinking outside a narrow, specialized field.  That is not the best formula for a resilient society.

Life has become so complicated that no single person has the time or ability to create everything they use on a daily basis.  If I had to learn to design and build all my household appliances, my car, refine oil for gasoline, and the list goes on... I would not have any time in the day to put dinner on the table.  Because our lives are filled with  gadgets that can't be manufactured and maintained by a single person in a single lifetime, we each specialize in something.  Incidentally, we fill our time making gadgets that help us manage our gadgets and make more gadgets.  As for those interested in hobbies, there is only time for a few of these as well.

Many musicians make a living doing music.  Sounds produced by commercially-procured effects technology are only one part of this process.  These musicians are interested in music, and not so much the effects.  They don't have time to build effects, but they do have money to pay for it.  Thus, we have people who know how making things for those who don't know how.

If we are sheep to this system, then we do truly get stuck into a "milk comes from the supermarket" mentality.  Fortunately we can exist within this system without being lulled to sleep.

Building effects pedals has helped me pull the cover of mystique off commercially-produced technology in general, and it helps maintain an edge of mental sharpness.  It helps keep me from falling into the "that's not my job so I don't want to know anything about it" mentality.  True, we don't have the time nor mental capacity to know everything about everything, but it's good to challenge yourself know a little bit about most things.  I suspect most people who are interested in DIY hobbies already have this bent, so I'm preaching to the choir for the most part :-)

So what does this have to do with how pedal-building has shaped my view of the commercial pedal industry?  I have come to realize that they are people who know how to make FX pedals and they are making them for those who do not know how.  Some are good quality, some are bad quality, some implement wise decisions about what to expose to the user interface, some don't.  If none of those hundreds of choices out there don't fit my requirements or budget, then I build it myself.  Consequently I have not purchased a commercial pedal for several years now.

[quackenbush]

I buy things when it's a good product that I can't make for myself for less. There are some really good deals to be had, particularly where basic gain and filtering circuits and such are what's going on. For example, I'd never be able to put together a 7 band graphic EQ for 27 dollars if you factor in the time i would spend soldering and debugging, which is why I have the Danelectro one on my pedal board. That said, you'll never catch me shelling out big bucks for a vintage fuzz box because i'm generally much happier with my own custom tweaked designs. What I do like and things that I think are definitely worth the money are folks like Zachary Vex or Dave Fox who push at the boundaries and bring in new ideas. I personally wish I'd thought of some of the Zvex sequenced effects because I think they're brilliant musical instruments in their own right. There's an area in between "gear manufacturer" a la a leo fender and "electronic musician" like Hugh LeCain that some of these builders fit into and frankly I think you're getting more than what you're paying for when you buy a dwarfcraft, zvex, devi ever, or fox pedal. Some of the other boutique stuff I have less patience for, but if you're doing interesting things and making new ways of playing the guitar possible, which I think all of those designers do, then it's a misnomer to just think of them as a "boutique stompbox manufacturer."

[bwanasonic]

Some people do crossword puzzles.  Some are masters of Sudoku, or get together to challenge each other in a game of pinochle.

I design, build, tweak, play with electronics that do crazy things to the sound of a musical instrument.  It's mentally stimulating and keeps me sharp.

I think this has played into my growing feeling about commercial industry in general:  We the people are being trained by our society to be merely consumers. 

Hear, hear!

My interest in  DIY pedals and tube amps lead to a better understanding of the whole signal chain, and the realization that there is no *magic* involved, other than the *magic* a good chef uses when taking a handful of good quality ingredients and making a delicious meal. OTH, I have had the good fortune to work with a small *state-of-the-art* effects company*, and have had invaluable insight into the realties of a modern pedal maker. It certainly put my meager abilities as a DIY hobbyist into perspective. Basically there are certain things you can do with some financial backing that you can only dream about as a DIY/ Hobbyist, and luckily there are some folks in that situation who are are really talented, experienced, and just as passionate about the musical use of effects as the most rabid DIYer.

I've been known as an "effects guy" for decades, but it wasn't until I started making my own pedals that I got an understanding of the whole ecology, from the guitar pickups and controls, to the amp input on through to the speakers. Building my own, and getting to know people people trying to make a business selling effects has given me better appreciation of the whole spectrum, from hobbyist turned entrepreneur, to cutting edge commercial pedal design.

*http://www.sourceaudio.net/

K

[joegagan]

Bill Finnegan calls me up out of the blue, and asks me if I could help him out with a couple of changes to the Klon Centaur

wow. all i can say is, this makes me very proud. this is what i was referring to on that other thread, that this community has been part of a  healthy cycle of creation and appreciation of stompboxes. the klon is mythical. bill really paved the way for an explosion of OD adoration. good on ya, mark, glad you got the call. i am sure you had a blast with that even though the results may not have shown up ( yet).