TS Bypass video questions

[knealebrown]

Hey guys i happened across this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70loOVwvZUA

Can i just use this guys method of desoldering the input, output, +, - LED wires and route them to a 3PDT switch for true bypass?

Or does he use a relay system because a 3pdt switch causes a DC offset pop? and/or because the original switch is momentary and he doesnt want to destroy the case by drilling it?

What do you think? i have an original TS9 and a simple mod like this would be useful to an extent.

Thanks in advance

Kneale

[ayayay!]

Every thing I've ever read of Jack's is pretty solid. 

Or does he use a relay system because a 3pdt switch causes a DC offset pop? and/or because the original switch is momentary and he doesnt want to destroy the case by drilling it?

Yes and yes.

Of course the mod is useful, the question is do you want to spend the money on it?  Some 3PDT switching is just fine.  I've managed to not produce a popping one in well over a year, but it can/does happen, and seems to happen to some people more than others.  There's stuff here I don't care to go into...

A Millenium is a great alternative, but you'd still be drilling.  Do what YOU want to do. 

[knealebrown]

great, think ill just try it and if anything gos awry i can just revert back to stock. Cant see anything getting destroyed in the process.

Chears.

[Sanguinicus]

Regarding popping, either Geofx or Amz has a write up on how to tackle it if it does happen. It involves placing a resistor at the switch or something. Might be worth checking out. I'm sure someone will reply about it.

[knealebrown]

yeah ive seen that article before very useful.

So i did this tonight and it works, i now have a fully frankenstein TS-9. I removed the original latching switch and am going to replace it with a metal plate on which is attached the 3pdt and the original ibanez sticker, Should look fairly swish/totally hacked.

will post the results in the pictures section.

[R.G.]

Some comments.

If you'll read Geofex (http://www.geofex.com), you can get some more information about the Boss/Ibanez switching system.

In particular, you're looking for: http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/bosstech.pdf which shows how the switching system works, what to do to modify/change/fix it, and how to use a simple relay **with** the existing light/switch to get true bypass on these pedals without hacking in a 3PDT switch; uses only a $0.50 BS170 or 2N7000 MOSFET, a $3.00 relay, and some resistors.

[knealebrown]

thanks R.G. as ever.

[knealebrown]

ha ha, and i dont have 'BUMS' im studying pros and cons of buffered, true, non true and jfet switching systems.

[knealebrown]

hmmm so im not entirely sure what the advantages of jfet switching is, especially to a commercial industry.

It seems more manually intensive to build, more in parts cost, more space in the enclosure taken up, more parts to go wrong/replace during repairs.

Can somebody point out the pros? sorry if ive missed an obvious resource online.

[R.G.]

hmmm so im not entirely sure what the advantages of jfet switching is, especially to a commercial industry.
It seems more manually intensive to build, more in parts cost, more space in the enclosure taken up, more parts to go wrong/replace during repairs.
Can somebody point out the pros? sorry if ive missed an obvious resource online.

Actually, although there are more individual parts, as a whole, JFET switching is cheaper in terms of parts and labor, smaller, and more reliable. You would be correct if you were comparing all electronic systems or all mechanical systems. However, JFET switching is all electronic and relays and switches are mechanical. The mechanicals lose on almost all counts.

First, number of parts. Yes, the JFET switch has more parts if you think of a relay or stomp switch as a single part. However, they are assembled of a number of smaller mechanical parts, all of which have to work perfectly for the mechanical/relay to function. There are not as many fewer parts in a mechanical switch as you think.

Second, parts cost. Resistors cost $0.02 at most, ceramic caps about the same. Transistors are $0.03-0.04 in large quantities. JFETs are maybe $0.08. The cheapest good relay I know of is $2.50, a mechanical stomp switch is $1.25 or so. Electronics is cheaper.

Third, board space. Electronics MAY take up more board space if you use a super-mini relay versus through-hole electronic parts. But not if you also compare apples-to-apples with SMD electronics.

Fourth, reliability; Transistors and JFETs can switch so many more times without wearing out that it's imponderable. The real wearout mechanism for JFET switching is the mechanical momentary switch to make the electronics work. Relays and stompswitches are good for 10K - 100K operations if you're lucky.

To a manufacturer, the electronic version of bypassing is more reliable, cheaper to buy, cheaper to manufacture.

In a more general vein, every one of the pedals made by the company I design for uses a carefully designed buffer at the front end of the pedal and electronic switching, although I generally use CMOS switches and not JFETs. This was not a casual selection. We made up test pedals where we could switch between hard-contact switches and buffered/active bypassing. The electronic version won listening tests reliably, including to people who didn't know what they were listening for.

I understand how you got to where you are, and I applaud your taking time to experiment for yourself.

[knealebrown]

Not a problem R.G and thanks for taking time to explain, much appreciated. I see your points and they are very interesting. Its also interesting to see that economics and reliability walk hand in hand on this one. One thing that seems to be the weak link though is that the relay and footswitch are still mechanical and therefore still come across the same abuses from the user.
Maybe im not explaining that as well as i could, its late here in the U.K.

What i mean to say is that wether you use a 3pdt switch to bypass or a hybrid relay/jfet/switch system (buffers aside) both methods have a mechanical element that will degrade with each use. So in a repair sense surely using a 3pdt switch hardwired (not board mounted) would be easier for repair.
I may be slightly biased though in my thinking, i used to work for an audio equipment manufacturer and would have much rather fix a single switch than desolder a relay.

Im designing a buffered bypass system with flexible routing options using a mechanical FS's and relays for my dissertation atm hence the interest. Ive just seen your remote bypass ideas as well, great stuff, pretty much along the same lines as mine without the CMOS intergration.......wish id seen that a few months back lol 

[knealebrown]

Of course im just shooting the s**t, its just good to fire questions ive been asking myself for months at someone else, make sure im not confusing myself. 

Btw did you publish the results for those tests you ran at visual sound (i presume) anywhere online? it would be some great reference material 'tis all.