Fuzz Face attempt 3...,

[petemoore]

  AC across a capacitor will see' an increase impedance as frequency drops...ie that cap is a HP filter, the highs get through unimpeded, or relatively unimpeded, the lower frequencies less so or low frequencies = none.
   Smaller value cap there will let a smaller proportiion of lows through.
  Make sure the + button on the battery will follow/connect to Gnd. as shown. The - from the battery goes to the 'top' power rail .The voltage polarities during measurement then don't 'matter' [if they're correct], the ground rail being the reference and voltage measurements being proportions that matter...the _ on the DMM screen can be or not...[the voltages can be measured 'backwards'] or just invert the probes.
   

[MrTonesNZ]

Here's the schematic i'm using.

Output cap should be .01µF instead of .1µF, but that's not related to the volume issue..

Yea i've noticed that looking at other schematics, what difference DOES it make?

the larger, the more bass...but back to the problem...you wrote: "I've even managed to bias it to the general guitar gadgets specs, and still get quiet. "

Do you now have near correct values for voltages on Q1 & Q2 ?  You no longer have 0 on both sides of the input cap?

Correct! Replaced the 8k resistor with a 100kpot, huge i know but it's the lowest i have on hand, also realised that i was bypassing the 22uf cap, but i fixed that. And with the 100kpot managed to dial up almost perfect GGG specs. Did help the Vol a wee bit, and with the amp cranked i got an "ok" tone, but got nothing with guitar vol below 8.

[MrTonesNZ]

Here's the schematic i'm using.

Output cap should be .01µF instead of .1µF, but that's not related to the volume issue..

Yea i've noticed that looking at other schematics, what difference DOES it make?

the larger, the more bass...but back to the problem...you wrote: "I've even managed to bias it to the general guitar gadgets specs, and still get quiet. "

Do you now have near correct values for voltages on Q1 & Q2 ?  You no longer have 0 on both sides of the input cap?

Correct! Replaced the 8k resistor with a 100kpot, huge i know but it's the lowest i have on hand, also realised that i was bypassing the 22uf cap, but i fixed that. And with the 100kpot managed to dial up almost perfect GGG specs. Did help the Vol a wee bit, and with the amp cranked i got an "ok" tone, but got nothing with guitar vol below 8.

[Electric Warrior]

nothing? how do you mean? does it cut out or clean up?

[MrTonesNZ]

 AC across a capacitor will see' an increase impedance as frequency drops...ie that cap is a HP filter, the highs get through unimpeded, or relatively unimpeded, the lower frequencies less so or low frequencies = none.
   Smaller value cap there will let a smaller proportiion of lows through.
  Make sure the + button on the battery will follow/connect to Gnd. as shown. The - from the battery goes to the 'top' power rail .The voltage polarities during measurement then don't 'matter' [if they're correct], the ground rail being the reference and voltage measurements being proportions that matter...the _ on the DMM screen can be or not...[the voltages can be measured 'backwards'] or just invert the probes.
   

Yea thanks pete. But i'm 99% sure ive grounded right. As i say, this is attempt 3.
Ive got the "-" of the power supply connected between to the resistors on the top left, and all the ground points are attached to "+" And I've checked several times that my Caps are orientated correctly.

[MrTonesNZ]

nothing? how do you mean? does it cut out or clean up?

Cuts out, Or is very faint, and sputtlery

[MrTonesNZ]

In general the volume is significantly low comared to bypassed signal

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Volume pot wired backwards or wrong taper 

[MrTonesNZ]

Volume pot wired backwards or wrong taper 

Haven't even got a vol on it. Just straight out. Shouldn't be a problem should it?

[MrTonesNZ]

Hold up, just cheaked levels again.

This is what im getting, after tweaking.

Q1
c 4.9
b .14
e.0

Q2
c4.7
b 4.9
e 4.7

Q2's Collecter seems to like it around 6, i get twice the volume. But still same problem, hardly anything with gat vol @8. So sorry, not quite GGG specs. Q1s collecter seems rather high, is this my problem? How can i wind it down? I tried upping the 33k, to 100k, which got it to arround 3, but i diddn't notice any significant change in sound, so i went back.
Anyway. It's 4.10am, i'm clinicly insane, no state for building fuzz faces

[aron]

Start from the basics. Is the transistor oriented properly?

[LucifersTrip]

Q1
c 4.9
b .14
e.0

Q2
c4.7
b 4.9
e 4.7

Q2's Collecter seems to like it around 6

thoough, you wrote 4.7 above.  +1 to aron's comment above...and it looks like you needed to sleep on this one and start fresh the next day. before you start upping the 33K, just try to sort out the voltages first. 

the FF works very well the way it was designed. the only thing you need to tweak at first is the 8.2K. you said you were using a 100K pot there. what's the pot value when you hit 4.5v on Q2's collector? You should get somewhat close to the 8.2k (say, 4 - 15k). if you're too far off (and your wiring is correct), it would be time to try different transistors

[MrTonesNZ]

Trying to find a data sheet for my B172's, can't find one. But theres a circle, and above that theres a circle with an "A" inside it. This should be the emmitter right?

[petemoore]

  Get a DMM with 'hfe checker' [they don't test for leakage], stuff the three transistor leads in the four holes provided [so it's easier to get any orientation/pinout going] every way possible until a ballpark Hfe reading shows on the DMM screen. Draw the pinout [E C B markings on the DMM] on paper showing the orientation of the transistor mark/pinout.
  It will only show a reasonable Hfe on one side or the other [PNP or NPN], when this happens, not only the pinout but the transistor polarity is shown and can be copied from the DMM markings the transistor pins are in.
  Choose appropriate schematic, PNP...Positive Ground [if using PNP transistor].
   To test for leakage and see other Rangemaster bias information, check out GEO.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Trying to find a data sheet for my B172's, can't find one. But theres a circle, and above that theres a circle with an "A" inside it. This should be the emmitter right?

If it is a 2SB172 transistor in the TO-5 metal can, then the leg that is closest to the little metal tab on the side of the can is the Emitter.

Google is your friend.... 

[MrTonesNZ]

  Get a DMM with 'hfe checker' [they don't test for leakage], stuff the three transistor leads in the four holes provided [so it's easier to get any orientation/pinout going] every way possible until a ballpark Hfe reading shows on the DMM screen. Draw the pinout [E C B markings on the DMM] on paper showing the orientation of the transistor mark/pinout.
  It will only show a reasonable Hfe on one side or the other [PNP or NPN], when this happens, not only the pinout but the transistor polarity is shown and can be copied from the DMM markings the transistor pins are in.
  Choose appropriate schematic, PNP...Positive Ground [if using PNP transistor].
   To test for leakage and see other Rangemaster bias information, check out GEO.

Thankyou pete, took me a step further. I feel stupid as!

So i had the transistors in backwards ....shame.....

Sound has cleared up a lot! and pedal no longer interacts with my other pedals, happy about that! And i now get a sound with vol rolled down

But!.. Still pretty quiet, and i get a sort of low pitched RF hum when im not playing, sort of kicks in after a few seconds.
And also, i noticed it takes 530k to get collector (the real collector) down to 4.5. Thought that was strange.

Is a volume drop common with fuzz curcuits? thought it was meant to boost?

Happy with the sound though

[MrTonesNZ]

Q1
c 4.9
b .14
e.0

Q2
c4.7
b 4.9
e 4.7

Q2's Collecter seems to like it around 6

thoough, you wrote 4.7 above.  +1 to aron's comment above...and it looks like you needed to sleep on this one and start fresh the next day. before you start upping the 33K, just try to sort out the voltages first. 

the FF works very well the way it was designed. the only thing you need to tweak at first is the 8.2K. you said you were using a 100K pot there. what's the pot value when you hit 4.5v on Q2's collector? You should get somewhat close to the 8.2k (say, 4 - 15k). if you're too far off (and your wiring is correct), it would be time to try different transistors

So it takes 530k to get q2s collector to 4.5. New Transistors you think?

[petemoore]

  Q2 collector generally biases with it's Rbias resistor in a range between 5k6 and 18k. 530k is well outside that range.
   Another issue is pulling the circuits output collector voltage up.
  Start with testing for common ground nodes, work up to emitters measuring the R values between the nodes.
   If reverse polarity was applied to a polarized cap, replace it.
  The - mark of a capacitor always to the most - side of it's position in the circuit.
   
 

[MrTonesNZ]

  Q2 collector generally biases with it's Rbias resistor in a range between 5k6 and 18k. 530k is well outside that range.
   Another issue is pulling the circuits output collector voltage up.
  Start with testing for common ground nodes, work up to emitters measuring the R values between the nodes.
   If reverse polarity was applied to a polarized cap, replace it.
  The - mark of a capacitor always to the most - side of it's position in the circuit.
   
 

So i fick my DMM to measure resistance?

Sorry could you clarify this for me? I'm still new to this, only bought my DMM about a month ago. Thankyou so much for your help