63/37, lead free or Sn+Ag solder?

[PRR]

> silver gives better conductivity.

The copper wire is several inches long. The solder joint should be TIGHT, with a minimum of solder between wire and lug/pad. Also most electronic wires (and their joints) are sized for mechanical strength, not for conductivity. We could use hair-fine wires and be fine electrically; but they break on the bench and on the road.

Lead is not a great conductor, but not that bad, and should be a VERY SMALL part of the total path.

Yes, lead is terrible in your brain. Don't handle lead then eat. Imagine un-clogging a toilet: your hands may look clean but you will be sure to wash-up WELL before your hand gets anywhere near your nose mouth eyes.

Lead fumes do happen at soldering temp but in very small quantity, and in DIY we don't have hot lead under our nose more than a few seconds a minute. Hand-soldering with Pb solders is still legal (special-case where Pb is restricted) and industrial workers sling a lot more lead than we do.

> rosin seems to be a mild irritant. You'd probably need a lot to cause permanent damage

That's it for most people. A few people develop a sensitivity after some exposure, and just can NOT be near the stuff. If rosin smoke gets in your eyes and you tear-up, don't get smoke in your eyes. If after a while (with some reasonable ventilation) you are wheezing and your skin breaks out, every time, stop soldering with rosin. (I know one guy who does, because he "must", wearing gas-mask and gloves.)

[diagrammatiks]

desoldering lead free solder is the worst.

the absolute worst.

that being said 62/36/2 until it goes the way of the dodo.

[DavenPaget]

desoldering lead free solder is the worst.

the absolute worst.

that being said 62/36/2 until it goes the way of the dodo.

+1 on that , it stinks 

[Jorge_S]

that being said 62/36/2 until it goes the way of the dodo.

Sorry if the question sounds st001d, but that last "2" in 62/36/2 refers to what element? copper? silver?

Will this combination "be better" than traditional eutectic 63/37?

[DavenPaget]

Sliver . Who knows ?

[R.G.]

Sorry if the question sounds st001d, but that last "2" in 62/36/2 refers to what element? copper? silver?
Will this combination "be better" than traditional eutectic 63/37?

Silver.

It offers some really huge advantages.

... to advertisers.    It just sounds so cool to say "silver-bearing solder" or "precious-metal solder". I've even seen it referred to as "silver solder", which it assuredly is not. Real silver solder is another animal entirely, and is mostly silver, plus some toxic cadmium and other stuff. But we've all been exposed to the oral tradition of William Jefferson Clinton and his immortal "it all depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

Adding silver to solders does have some effects on the solder's performance as an electrical conductor and as a glue, but the changes it causes in things like the audio produced by flowing signal through it are so microscopic that it's silly to say that it makes a change.

If you think about it, saying that silver-bearing solder makes an audible difference, or saying "oxygen-free copper wire" makes an audible difference is the same as saying "I can do metallurgical analysis just by listening to audio frequency electrical signals sent through the metal". It starts to sound a lot sillier when put that way.

[diagrammatiks]

Sorry if the question sounds st001d, but that last "2" in 62/36/2 refers to what element? copper? silver?
Will this combination "be better" than traditional eutectic 63/37?

Silver.

It offers some really huge advantages.

... to advertisers.    It just sounds so cool to say "silver-bearing solder" or "precious-metal solder". I've even seen it referred to as "silver solder", which it assuredly is not. Real silver solder is another animal entirely, and is mostly silver, plus some toxic cadmium and other stuff. But we've all been exposed to the oral tradition of William Jefferson Clinton and his immortal "it all depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

Adding silver to solders does have some effects on the solder's performance as an electrical conductor and as a glue, but the changes it causes in things like the audio produced by flowing signal through it are so microscopic that it's silly to say that it makes a change.

If you think about it, saying that silver-bearing solder makes an audible difference, or saying "oxygen-free copper wire" makes an audible difference is the same as saying "I can do metallurgical analysis just by listening to audio frequency electrical signals sent through the metal". It starts to sound a lot sillier when put that way.

hi RG. I do not like the silver leaching from my terminal posts, tinned wire, and component leads.

saying that the only things worth using are those with an audible effect is really a race to the bottom.

62/36/2 has a different melting point and flow characteristics. It was not and is not more expensive then 63/37.

[R.G.]

I do not like the silver leaching from my terminal posts, tinned wire, and component leads.

That is a good and valid concern. But it's never what gets mentioned in the advertising for "silver solder".

saying that the only things worth using are those with an audible effect is really a race to the bottom.

Could be. But that's not what I said. I just object to saying that things which are not audible are. There are many reasons to use alternate materials, including:

62/36/2 has a different melting point and flow characteristics. It was not and is not more expensive then 63/37.

this one. Silver content does have an effect. 62/36/2 melts at 179C instead of 183-190C for 60/40 and 183 for 63/37, so you get a 4C lower melting point. Here's what I found about it:

Sn62. Common in electronics. The strongest tin-lead solder. Appearance identical to Sn60Pb40 or Sn63Pb37. Crystals of Ag3Sn may be seen growing from the solder. Extended heat treatment leads to formation of crystals of binary alloys. Silver content decreases solubility of silver, making the alloy suitable for soldering silver-metallized surfaces, e.g. SMD capacitors and other silver-metallized ceramics. Not recommended for gold. General-purpose.

Melts 4 degrees sooner, stronger when solidified, doesn't leach silver out. If it works well for you, use it.

[diagrammatiks]

It's actually I think preferred for teflon wire since the pretinning process is different.

the teflon outer means that the wire has to be plated with a silver/lead/tin mixture.

using a bit of silver in the solder helps to maintain the strength of the joint better.

although I suppose its just silver/tin now.

[arawn]

Yeah but for the amount of lead we are talking about it would take literally years of cumulative exposure to generate any issues. It's nothing like kids eating lead paint. Just wash your hands and don't worry about it.

[Zipslack]

Just a quick anecdote...

I worked for 6 years for a manufacturer that made sub-assemblies for military contractors.  Lots of soldering components together, solder-coated steel enclosures which were seam-soldered for hermetic seals, tinning inductor leads using inductive-heat melting pots...all using 63/37 or 60/40.  There were 50+ women there working various positions in the plant that soldered all day long, 40+ hours a week.  Many of those women had been with the company for 20+ years, some 30+....guess how many had health issues that could be attributed to lead-poisoning.  Birth defects, cancer, insanity?  Nothing...nada...zilch.  In fact, EPA and OSHA were way more concerned about the cleaning agents used than any lead contamination. 

Use 63/37 or 60/40...use a small fan...wash your hands....don't chew it like gum...quit worrying.

[R.G.]

...don't chew it like gum...

You're going to love this one. We had a lab tech back at my first career that did exactly this. He'd chew solder. Truly bizarre. Those of us who worried about contamination issues were horrified. He laughed at us.

Of course, he was strange in other ways, too. The chewing solder was a relatively mild part of his oddities.



Back when this particular big company was first being pursued by OSHA and the EPA as an obvious target, we had to sit through repetitive lectures on materials safety. But a little research on the literature in the technical library (remember libraries? that was before the internet was the fount of all knowledge  ) I found that most of the research on industrial contamination was either for incredulously toxic stuff or wasn't much of an issue. Lab measurements of contamination on unwashed hands showed relatively minimal amounts of contaminants unless you were actually trying to eat the stuff off your hands. Simple hand washing was an effective defense. The nasty stuff was materials that were actually skin penetrants or mixed with penetrants like DMSO.

Use common sense: don't chew (well, and/or swallow) solder, wash your hands afterwards.

[Jorge_S]

62/36/2 melts at 179C instead of 183-190C for 60/40 and 183 for 63/37, so you get a 4C lower melting point.
(...)
Melts 4 degrees sooner, stronger when solidified, doesn't leach silver out. If it works well for you, use it.

So far we got:
- Lead free Sn + Ag is hard to work with, and doesn't have any audible differences.
- 63/37 works fine, sounds fine, and experience says almost null intoxication risks with basic care (washing hands, not eating it, etc).
- 62/36/2 has 4C less melting temperature and more mechanical resistance. It's more expensive @ebay vs. regular eutectic solder.

So it's basically narrowed to two options, regular eutectic and 62Sn/36Pb/2Ag. Any of this will work fine for diy stompboxes/audio applications.

R.G.:
What do you regularly use nowadays for stompboxes? I'll appreciate if you can also tell us the gauge.
Sorry for all the questions but with your huge experience I can't go wrong using the same solder type :-)

[diagrammatiks]

is 63/37 cheaper?

lead solder prices seem to be all over the place on ebay.

kester 44 .20 63/37 is anywhere from 30 to 60 dollars a pound.

[Jorge_S]

is 63/37 cheaper?
lead solder prices seem to be all over the place on ebay.
kester 44 .20 63/37 is anywhere from 30 to 60 dollars a pound.

1lb Gardener brand (Chicago based company) eutectic solder goes for $6 + Shipping. I've seen Kester eutectic 1lb going for $21, Japanese brands go for $12 and Chinese brand for as low as $5.

62/36/2 in Qualitek brand goes for $52 + shipping.

[DavenPaget]

is 63/37 cheaper?

lead solder prices seem to be all over the place on ebay.

kester 44 .20 63/37 is anywhere from 30 to 60 dollars a pound.

.020 ? 

[alparent]

.020 in = .051 mm

[familyortiz]

I've used pretty much all types of solder over the years from standard tin/lead to lead free to low temp indium. For the most part, the 63/37 tin lead will do all that you want, but I like the additional hardness and strength of the lead free for certain applications, e.g. I see jack subassemblies built with tin/lead solder fail regularly from repeated insertion/removal. These type of solder joints will last longer with lead free. If the higher solder temps and the possible tin whisker growth of lead free are not issues, then it has value in certain applications.

[diagrammatiks]

is 63/37 cheaper?
lead solder prices seem to be all over the place on ebay.
kester 44 .20 63/37 is anywhere from 30 to 60 dollars a pound.

1lb Gardener brand (Chicago based company) eutectic solder goes for $6 + Shipping. I've seen Kester eutectic 1lb going for $21, Japanese brands go for $12 and Chinese brand for as low as $5.

62/36/2 in Qualitek brand goes for $52 + shipping.

ahh your right. I was only looking at the kester stuff.

62/36/2 seems to be at about 50 for 1 band all over right now.

It didn't use to be that way. At least at radio shack it's still the same price. 

[PRR]

.020 in = .051 mm

.020 in = .51 mm (or 0.051cm)