Will anyone ever reveal the true circuit Hendrix used in his FuzzFace?

[ubersam]

Jimi told me over lunch that the OP might just be trying to stir up some hype for an upcoming YAFF booteek pedal...

Were you having lunch in heaven or hell?

at Tommy's on Rampart Bl. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

i thought you guys would be chillin' with mr. mojo risin' in the mountains of seattle... 

[The Tone God]

I heard Jimi used a Line 6 POD.

Andrew

[pinkjimiphoton]

into a zoom 505...lol

[zombiwoof]

I don't really have much to add to this thread, other than to mention the 5881's shipping in Marshalls might have had something to do with a certain EVH.

Also, a lot of those great tones you hear on record are actually just stock Fender or whatever amps.

Jimi used Marshalls up full for his live concerts, but he used whatever he could get his hands on in the studio.
Tracks like RedHouse were cut on Fender Deluxes, if I recall correctly.

The change to Sovtek 5881's in Marshalls during a short period had nothing to do with EVH.  They reluctantly put those Sovteks (which are not even a true 5881 or 6L6) in the amps, because the last manufacturer of EL34's (Tesla) had shut down, and there were NO sources for new manufacture EL34's for a year or two.  As soon as EL34's were available again, Marshall immediately returned to using them. Also, EVH didn't use 5881's in his famous Marshall head (the one on the early albums), he used the Philips/Sylvania big-bottle 6CA7's.  I have a friend who knew Jose, EVH's amp tech for many years (now sadly deceased), and he talked quite a bit about what he did to that Marshall.  I got to meet Jose a couple of times at his shop in Van Nuys along with my friend, and he was quite a character.  He had worked at the original Ampeg company in the old days, and had a hand in the design of quite a few classic Ampeg amps.  When he was around, he was one of the go-to guys for L.A. musicians for amp work, and he was hilarious to talk to.  I think he was in his 70's when I met him, and he died a few years later.  Not trying to be argumentative here, just passing on some info.  6CA7's are the American equivalent to EL34's, although the construction is different and they don't break up as early as EL34's, they are more like a cross between a European EL34 and a 6550 in character.

You are correct that Jimi used different amps in the studio, including Fenders like the Bassman, Twin, and possibly the Deluxe you spoke of (I hadn't heard that one, but it is quite possible).  The Marshalls were his workhorse amps, though, he used the other amps for certain cuts and as I said earlier, he later started using the Showmans on stage along with the Marshalls, mixing them together.

Al

[brett]

Hi
RE: 6CA7

although the construction is different and they don't break up as early as EL34's

That is a surprise to me - aren't some valves are marked 6CA7 *and* EL34?
e.g. valves made in Australia were most often marked according European conventions, but sometimes American, and sometimes both. e.g. 12AX7s/ECC83s from Miniwatt.
Or has my memory failed?

[PRR]

> aren't some valves are marked 6CA7 *and* EL34?

The datasheet limits are quite broad. The tube guts can be quite different and still meet all specs.

IIRC: some early 6CA7 were imported EL34. Later I saw some which were a lot like 6L6GC, though obviously without the aligned G2 (and in taller bottles). Then in the fading days of tubes the big US factories were winding-down and east-Europe EL34s filled the need.

[R.G.]

That is a surprise to me - aren't some valves are marked 6CA7 *and* EL34?

Paul's right - tubes/transistors/yada/yada are to type number specifications as cars are to garages: if you can drive it into the Chevy garage/datasheet, it's a Chevy. If it has a Toyota emblem on it, and goes into the Chevy garage without tearing up either the garage or the car, one could logically say it fits and the label it "Chevy". Things marked "Volvo" may or may not fit into the Chevy or Toyota garages. Or both.

[zombiwoof]

Hi
RE: 6CA7

although the construction is different and they don't break up as early as EL34's

That is a surprise to me - aren't some valves are marked 6CA7 *and* EL34?
e.g. valves made in Australia were most often marked according European conventions, but sometimes American, and sometimes both. e.g. 12AX7s/ECC83s from Miniwatt.
Or has my memory failed?

Yes, they are often labeled with both numbers, because they are electrically compatible tubes, but the construction is different between a "real" EL34 (which was designed in Europe) and a "real" 6CA7 (which was designed in the U.S. I believe in response to the EL34).  Similar to 12AX7 tubes, which are often labelled 12AX7/EC83/7025 or some combination of those, because all those types are interchangeable.  There is info on the net somewhere about how a true EL34 and a true 6CA7 differ, but I don't have a link at the moment.  An EL34 generally has a "softer" sound and breaks up more easily than a 6CA7.

Al

[petemoore]

  It began and ended with coil/magnet structures.
  Though SS was purported to be more failure proof than tubes in general, much of the unobtainium found in the 'magic circular boxes' earned field test reputations for sporadic performance, unreliability and failure.
   Much of the high rate of failure was due to 'wizardic' expectations coupled with an ability to make production line magic seem an indespenable commodity for any wannabe wizards pot [a cauldren was often recommended as not necessary because finances wouldn't cover it, the little speaker with an amp tacked on would be deemed 'sufficient'] as a way to cater to them for profit. The treasure seekers of modern times are slightly quicker to recognize dead horses, but sales of magic boxes and unobtainium chunx continue to be disappointments or successes like the kings invisible clothes. These units may hide in closets or be exposed as the sound failures they are [Bob pulled a red FF out of his closet for me and said ''I'll repeated try to hear through it'].
  Because SS was purported to be uber-reliable [and turned out to be that way after Ge failures and unreliability fostered the need for more advanced testing/redesigning with silicon], the belief in performance reliability was reinforced in the minds of those who understood 'SS', and believed by those who didn't, sales of circular boxes which were purported to contain magic unobtainium flourished as a result of countless misunderstandings.
  Trial and error provided a good method back in the day, and is still a viable method of magic [tales of attempts to sort through 50 new FF's to find the magic one], though the modern methodology is to whiz up your own circuit or hire a reliable wiz to do it for you.   The modern versions are avaialable in a more sensible rectangular boxes which don't look to possess magical properties because rectanglular effect enclosure is the most common shape to find effects in.
   Since ancient Ge's are no longer in production, and gnewt habitats have reduced populations, making magic requires the old-school approach...search for what works and use it, or learn to find and process your own verified/tested/measured for leakage eyes of gnewt.
  Sifting through modern FF's for treasure or magic has been pretty well debunked, a lot of explaining or laughing might occur if a wiz was inclined to whiff through batches of modern FF's. Buy or build one with any magic having been replaced with a solid state of understanding.

[digi2t]

 It began and ended with coil/magnet structures.
 Though SS was purported to be more failure proof than tubes in general, much of the unobtainium found in the 'magic circular boxes' earned field test reputations for sporadic performance, unreliability and failure.
  Much of the high rate of failure was due to 'wizardic' expectations coupled with an ability to make production line magic seem an indespenable commodity for any wannabe wizards pot [a cauldren was often recommended as not necessary because finances wouldn't cover it, the little speaker with an amp tacked on would be deemed 'sufficient'] as a way to cater to them for profit. The treasure seekers of modern times are slightly quicker to recognize dead horses, but sales of magic boxes and unobtainium chunx continue to be disappointments or successes like the kings invisible clothes. These units may hide in closets or be exposed as the sound failures they are [Bob pulled a red FF out of his closet for me and said ''I'll repeated try to hear through it'].
 Because SS was purported to be uber-reliable [and turned out to be that way after Ge failures and unreliability fostered the need for more advanced testing/redesigning with silicon], the belief in performance reliability was reinforced in the minds of those who understood 'SS', and believed by those who didn't, sales of circular boxes which were purported to contain magic unobtainium flourished as a result of countless misunderstandings.
 Trial and error provided a good method back in the day, and is still a viable method of magic [tales of attempts to sort through 50 new FF's to find the magic one], though the modern methodology is to whiz up your own circuit or hire a reliable wiz to do it for you.   The modern versions are avaialable in a more sensible rectangular boxes which don't look to possess magical properties because rectanglular effect enclosure is the most common shape to find effects in.
  Since ancient Ge's are no longer in production, and gnewt habitats have reduced populations, making magic requires the old-school approach...search for what works and use it, or learn to find and process your own verified/tested/measured for leakage eyes of gnewt.
 Sifting through modern FF's for treasure or magic has been pretty well debunked, a lot of explaining or laughing might occur if a wiz was inclined to whiff through batches of modern FF's. Buy or build one with any magic having been replaced with a solid state of understanding.

One Fuzz to rule them all, One Fuzz to find them,
One Fuzz to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

My precious.....

[frank_p]

I bet that if Jimi had Shakespeares's pen, he would have been a great novelist.

[seedlings]

I bet that if Jimi had Shakespeares's pen, he would have been a great novelist.

CHAD

[frank_p]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6X0BcA1efk

[liquids]

Bias makes a big difference - I run my EL34s at 32-34 mA (hot!). They die young, but sound great. At 25mA they sound dead. Sound-wise, cold biasing ruins any tube.
cheers

I won't say you're wrong.  I'll say that's your opinion. I have a different one.

I've biased my old super reverb by ear - prefered a hot bias (70%+).  Needed the midrange cloudiness it gives, IMO.  

I biased my Ampeg V4 by ear - the colder I got, the better it sounded, plenty of mids on tap, the colder bias made the already fat lows even more powerful sounding to me  40% was nice!

6L6GC tubes in both.  Also very different plate voltages.  I didn't mention mA because without a context they mean very little....Bias is better expressed generally not just as a current, but a current at a specific voltage measured from plate to cathode...

25mA is ~70% bias and pretty hot for an EL34....at 700v.