Sand off the toner

[seedlings]

I tried a different toner printer for etching an enclosure.  This time the transfer went exceptionally well!  However, in my efforts, the transfer smudged crooked.  So, I went to the acetone to remove the toner and... it didn't come off.  Tried paint thinner- nope.  Scrubbed and scrubbed, but ended up sanding off the toner.  Why do you suppose the toner didn't come off?

CHAD

[amptramp]

Murphy's Law.

[Mark Hammer]

It's what X-acto blades were made for, my friend.

[.Mike]

I have... ermm... never screwed up a transfer, but if I had...

I use a Samsung printer, boards from ABCFab, dollar store photo paper, and Acetone from Home Depot.

Most of the toner comes off with acetone, but not all. I don't know why it doesn't all come off. I think it might not actually be toner that remains. I think it might just be discoloration from the heat involved.

I use a Scotchbrite pad to remove it.

Mike

[seedlings]

It's what X-acto blades were made for, my friend.

Since I have an x-acto knife, I'll bite.  How could it have helped me for this enclosure?

CHAD

[chi_boy]

Have you ever tried brake parts cleaner?  I get the stuff from the local auto parts store.  I've used it on boards and it works great.  I give a little blast to get it wet and let it soak for 10 seconds.  A second blast blows it all off.

[PRR]

Xerox/Laser toner is usually polystyrene.

The classic solvents are toluene and xylene (the smell in model cement). They rot your liver, give mice tumors, are not essential for most household work.... you may not be able to buy small quantities.(*)

http://www.bangslabs.com/sites/default/files/bangs/docs/pdf/Solvent_Listing.pdf lists acetone as a PS solvent. My experience is that it is almost useless. I suspect this is a list of what "might" soften PS, not a list of what WILL eat the stuff right off.

Toner is also binders and pigments. It could be that a binder coats the PS dust and resists the usual solvents.

Brake Kleener is nasty stuff. It takes the paint right off an engine. It rots your liver. It is super flammable. (*)It does contain toluene and xylene.

[Tony Forestiere]

Make friends with your local copier/printer tech. They may carry some "pink stuff" with a brand name like Sel-Solv or D-Ink. It is formulated to clean fused toner with just a little quantity/mild wiping with a rag. A little dab'll do ya. Works great and smells noxious. Wear nitrile or latex gloves though. As Paul said, this stuff has nasties in it. Also, it leaves a bit of oily residue, so here's where the acetone comes in.

edit: Beats the hell out of the Fedron we used in the 80's. That stuff was REALLY bad for you. Absorbed through the skin and cumulatively deposited in the liver. http://siri.org/msds/f2/bbk/bbkmp.html

[jdub]

I use that Goof Off stuff (NOT Goo Gone) that you can get at a number of stores to remove dried paint, crayon, etc.  Works great. 

[defaced]

Goof Off

I nick named that stuff "liquid death".  Great solvent, terrible to work with (fumes).  Thanks for posting that though, I don't have any in the house and that's the sort of stuff I like to keep on hand for my moments of random inspiration gone awry. 

[deadastronaut]

i'd sand it again anyway...

i tape my images to the top before ironing to stop any smudging/movement...works for me...

[Mark Hammer]

It's what X-acto blades were made for, my friend.

Since I have an x-acto knife, I'll bite.  How could it have helped me for this enclosure?

CHAD

Upon re-reading your original post, I may have jumped the gun.  I was thinking in terms of some of my own transfers where most is crisp but some parts are smudged.  An X-acto can help clean up some of the edges to salvage a board (or box) and make a cleaner etch.  Of course if the entire transfer looks like you put the wrong glasses on, then scraping is far from the best solution to the challenge.

[Cliff Schecht]

It's a really nasty chemical but MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) has worked wonders for me in the past. Used as an industrial solvent mostly but you can buy big cans of it and strip paint off of anything. It's a skin and eye irritant and also extremely flammable so not the easiest/nicest stuff to work with but it always took the toner right off of the boards with a very small amount. It also stores a lot better than other chemicals which is nice if you aren't pumping out boards everyday.

[seedlings]

I am moving over to the camp that believes if you can etch enclosures, then you're awesome.  I was in the camp where people thought, "Hey, that looks easy enough."

I'm going to pretend it's intentional and call it 'Relic' finish...



I sanded the toner off again.  This was the 3rd toner ironed on; third sanded off this enclosure...

CHAD

[StereoKills]

MEK is very aggressive. Be aware that it will start to bond plastics such as acrylic together in seconds.  

[Mike Burgundy]

Scotch Brite is probably the best bet - the solvents are really, really nasty (brake fluid may also work, it eats paint at least as well as brake cleaner), plus it's a LOT quicker than you'd think.

[jdub]

I nick named that stuff "liquid death".

Oh yeah, it's definitely nasty stuff- main ingredients are acetone and xylene, I believe.  I used to work repairing & wielding industrial painting equipment and after years of using all types of thinners & cleaning chemicals (stripper, MEK, xylene, etc.) I probably got kinda used to the stink (probably not a good thing  ), which often will penetrate even a decent respirator.  I usually only use the Goof Off for board mistakes cuz it only takes a little dab to remove the toner...but of course you have to wash the board with dish soap afterward to remove the oily residue.  I used to just sand off the errors, but found I was taking a lot of copper off, too.  For enclosures, there's a lot more resist involved, so I usually sand those errors since it takes more chemical and my wife & son get pissed  .  

[Jdansti]

Even with sanding you have a potential for respiratory exposure.  Whenever I cut or grind with my Dremel, sand or use solvents, I go outdoors, stand upwind of my work, and have a fan next to me help send the dust or vapors downwind.  I personally use brake cleaner for removing the toner while wearing nitrile gloves and using the method I just described.

Your could also use a respirator, but I don't recommend using any that you would find at a hardware store. They are junk and just give you a false sense of security.  MSA and Scott make good cartridge type respirators that are used by professionals who work with hazardous materials. One downside, though, is that you should be fit tested to make sure your respirator fits your face without leaks.  Most laymen don't have access a fit tester. 

Something else to consider with dust and vapors is the amount of exposure (dose).  I estimate that I have a very low exposure because I am upwind of the solvents, and my guess is that my exposure each time I use solvents is below the OSHA 8-hour permissible exposure limit (PEL).  Since I'm not using solvents every day, my total exposure (dose) should be well under what OSHA would consider a safe exposure level for a worker.  Of course each person has to decide what level of exposure/risk is acceptable.

[Jdansti]

I am moving over to the camp that believes if you can etch enclosures, then you're awesome.  I was in the camp where people thought, "Hey, that looks easy enough."

I'm going to pretend it's intentional and call it 'Relic' finish...



I sanded the toner off again.  This was the 3rd toner ironed on; third sanded off this enclosure...

CHAD

I like the relic look!  Do you think that you could repeat it?