Best way to learn to put together circuits. Tight groups vs linear.

[Thecomedian]

It took me about 2 hours to have a circuit 99% complete, sans pots and jacks, and it contains 20 parts. Would more spread out layout improve the speed of putting together circuits? What techniques do you use to organize and place circuitry for both speed and compactness? Linear is more like strip board, I suppose, since you're basically going from left to right. It seems faster, but I haven't had a chance to build a circuit on some strip board yet.

[GibsonGM]

I use generic perf board, comedian...I set where my active devices are going (opamps, transistors...) and keep space around them, and sort of lay things out in any way at all that makes sense.   Like, an R/C coming off an opamp feedback loop needs to terminate back at an input, say - so I make sure I am 'headed that way' around the chip, but keep some distance ("3 holes") away from the chip for other parts to sneak in there.   And look ahead, to see if other parts need to cross over, too, and leave room for them!   
 
I keep a corner of the perf open for my power supply stuff (bias, filter caps etc) and stay away from it....and try to run a ground bus if possible.     No real 'scheme', tho, unless it's a HUGE circuit.     Just some rules like keeping signal paths far from power if you can, stuff like that....I come from the point-to-point background, so this works for me. You'll find the way for you in time, keep building stuff! 

[Liquitone]

I take a fairly linear approach, going from left to right, then flipping the board 180 degrees.
First I divide the board into 3 or 4 rows, then I use the top row for power connections, 
the middle 1 or 2 rows for the actives and passives that make up the signal chain,
and then the bottom row for ground and connections to the pot-meters and fx in/out.
It seems to work well for me, I can put stuff together reasonably quickly with little mistakes, going from left to right (cause I read and think that way) and then flipping the board 180 degrees so fx-in is on the input side.
I also haven't had problems with power-noise getting into the signal since I started to layout in this fashion. (the in-out and pot-meter connections only cross the ground-lines instead of the power-line.)
I usually design with enough room between parts the first time (for adjustments and troubleshooting) and if it all works I redesign the layout looking for ways to make it a bit more compact.

[R.G.]

This is not the blowing my own horn that it will sound like.

Your question is answered in great detail in "PCB Layout for Musical Effects", and the answers are as pertinent to perfboard as they are to PCBs.

The overall answer it to get the physical parts connected so they reflect the schematic, however that is done, either by mimicing the overall schematic or whatever other means, then successively refining the positioning by moving, sliding, rotating, etc. the parts and keeping the electrical connections consistent. There's a lot of detail under that... 

[mth5044]

^RG's book is fantastic. I learned a great deal from it. My PCB's would not be the same without the knowledge in that book.

[ggedamed]

R.G., is there any supplier for your book in Europe? I only found uraltone.com, but they don't have it on stock and the price and the shipping to my country would go up to $90.

[smallbearelec]

This is not the blowing my own horn that it will sound like.

Maestro...You, of all people, are entitled to blow your own horn, at least a few notes. I, and many other people, owe you much for making the design process so much more systematic and efficient.

The price and the shipping to my country would go up to $90.

Please try setting up an order on the Stock List and see what shipping rate you get. If it goes too high, it's because the shipping tables in the cart can't distinguish between components (which have to be boxed), and a book (which can go in an envelope at a much lower rate). USPS.com quotes a one-pound envelope to Romania at less than $12.00 for (un-trackable) First Class and $23.40 for International Priority (might be trackable from your side after it hits Customs). E-mail us at smallbearelec@ix.netcom.com and we'll do our best to work this out.

[smallbearelec]

This is not the blowing my own horn that it will sound like.

Maestro...You, of all people, are entitled to blow your own horn. I, and many other people, owe you much for showing us how to make the design process so much more systematic and efficient.

The price and the shipping to my country would go up to $90.

Please try setting up an order on the Stock List and see what shipping rate you get. If it goes too high, it's because the shipping tables in the cart can't distinguish between components (which have to be boxed), and a book (which can go in an envelope at a much lower rate). USPS.com quotes a one-pound envelope to Romania at less than $12.00 for (un-trackable) First Class and $23.40 for International Priority (might be trackable from your side after it hits Customs). E-mail us at smallbearelec@ix.netcom.com and we'll do our best to work this out.

[ggedamed]

Please try setting up an order on the Stock List and see what shipping rate you get. If it goes too high, it's because the shipping tables in the cart can't distinguish between components (which have to be boxed), and a book (which can go in an envelope at a much lower rate). USPS.com quotes a one-pound envelope to Romania at less than $12.00 for (un-trackable) First Class and $23.40 for International Priority (might be trackable from your side after it hits Customs). E-mail us at smallbearelec@ix.netcom.com and we'll do our best to work this out.

Thank you. As your shop is the only source for the book, it was my first option. I got the following: $32.75 for the book and $34.00 for shipping. In addition to this, I would have to go the customs (which is far enough) and pay a tax which I was told it is around 30 euros. While this is still the best option I could find, I couldn't get myself to pay more than double the price of the book to third parties. Even if the shipping goes down to $12, I'm still left with the customs. Have you ever considered opening a branch in UE  ?

Totally unrelated, your web admin should know that the "Proceed to checkout" button is missing its image (images/dynamic_templatset/chkout_lock.gif).


LATER EDIT: Hmm, it seems I was misinformed about the customs tax. I sent an email to you.

[Thecomedian]

thanks. I made one circuit that is extremely tiny, but the compressed space makes it complicated and fiddly to work with. I took the suggestions and made another circuit last night (til 4 AM) which turns out to be much easier to follow and understand by looking at it, as well as easier to work with the components and make sure everything's connected proper. Funnily enough, it also ends up not taking that much more space than the uber compressed version.

I'm going to try from center outward approach for the next one, and shift around parts on the board like how R.G. described.

[WaveshapeIllusions]

I think a bit of space on the board is handy. Working things in is easier, I can add in extra parts afterwards without too much fiddling. I can also afford to miss (which I do a lot :p) with the iron without making too many solder bridges.

More specific designs I follow are to look at it a bit like the schematic. I set up one row as V+ (all the way across, using clipped leads to make it continuous) and the other end as 0V, so I can tap into each as needed. If there is a Vref I'll usually run that parallel to one of the rails. At one end I put the signal input and then I progress linearly from there, from one component to the next. The output usually ends up at the other end. I find that this works pretty well for discrete circuits, though it looks less than attractive.

For more complicated circuits with ICs, I try to think of it like a PCB. Using perf, extra component leads make good substitutes for copper traces. For setting up the PCB-like layout, I think DIYLC works for it. I've never actually used it but the layouts people have posted from it look nice. If you use Eagle I think it has an auto-routing function to get things started too.

Hope that this helps.

[Thecomedian]

yep, it does, thanks 

Im glad I decided on the 1590BB box. my perf/strip designs that I'm putting more spacing into are crowding even these "oversized" enclosures compared to the 1590B style, of course it's probably also an issue of the large component "cost" circuits Im making.

I like the idea of having a little extra space to add other things.