Have you ever see a 3PDT popping?

[JPGraphX]

Hi!

One simple question, I dont want solution for popping, I simply want to know if you ever saw a defect 3PDT responsible for popping?

[pappasmurfsharem]

Hi!

One simple question, I dont want solution for popping, I simply want to know if you ever saw a defect 3PDT responsible for popping?

Pretty sure this had been brought up in your popping thread(s).

Yes it can happen

[JPGraphX]

I'll have my 3pdt tomorrow, so I'll test it.

[mistahead]

As testing one unit will give definitive results... 

The answer is yes, they are a mechanical footswitch just like a DPDT stomp which means they can introduce all the same "pop" symptoms as the DPDT (and 50% more depending on wiring!).

3PDT true bypass is not immune to popping or a silver bullet by the way.

[amptramp]

There will always be a slight difference in the timing of the transfer of switch contacts.  If it could be guaranteed to be simultaneous or to occur in a fixed order, you could design around it, but production variations and unannounced production changes make this unlikely.  Check your design for the following:

1. What happens if the input makes contact before the output when swicthing the effect on?
2. What happens if the output makes contact before the input when switching the effect on?
3. What happens if the input makes contact before the output when swicthing the effect to bypass?
4. What happens if the output makes contact before the input when switching the effect to bypass?
5. What happens when the LED is switched on?
6. What happens when the LED is switched off?
7. What happens when the switch is moving between contacts and is not connected to anything?

The difference in contact transfer times may be on the order of a few milliseconds and may change over life.  A pulse of a few milliseconds is well within the audio range.  If you are trying out a design that has to be produced in quantity, you need to use three separate switches and watch the output with a scope when switching each one individually.  If the pop is excessive for any of the switching scenarios, you have to adjust the circuit design to suppress the noise.  There are good reasons that companies like Boss have gone away from true bypass.

[jsleep]

It's actually pretty common to get a "bad" 3PDT switch that pops.  I THINK the quality of 3PDT has improved over the last 5 years or so.  For a while I'd say about 1 in 20 of the blue 3PDT switches would pop.  Annoyingly, some wouldn't start popping until after a couple hundred switch operations.  I suspect that excessive heat while soldering to the lugs can cause it to pop as well.

JD

[Paul Marossy]

It's actually pretty common to get a "bad" 3PDT switch that pops.  I THINK the quality of 3PDT has improved over the last 5 years or so.  For a while I'd say about 1 in 20 of the blue 3PDT switches would pop.  Annoyingly, some wouldn't start popping until after a couple hundred switch operations. 

So that's about a 5% failure rate...

[jsleep]

So that's about a 5% failure rate...

Depends on what you mean by failure.  The switch works, it just pops real loud.  Maybe the chinese manufacturer doesn't consider that a failure :-)  I think the quality has improved since they first started selling them several years ago.

JD

[R.G.]

Mmmmm. What happens if the switch contacts bouncebouncebouncebounce?

Also: hard-contact switches can never be completely quiet. See the last item:


A bouncey-clicky near the top of a signal sounds like a blat of grack.

[Paul Marossy]

So that's about a 5% failure rate...

Depends on what you mean by failure.  The switch works, it just pops real loud.  Maybe the chinese manufacturer doesn't consider that a failure :-)  I think the quality has improved since they first started selling them several years ago.

JD

True. Just thinking of failure in terms of popping noises, due to what I assume is sluggish switching internally.

Out of hundreds I've wired up I've only had one fail outright when switching - it just locked up.

[jsleep]

What if the switch is near that tree that falls down in the woods?  I guess I usually listen for pop by clicking off and on several times while I'm not playing.  Maybe that's not practical.

JD

[Hemmel]

I suspect that excessive heat while soldering to the lugs can cause it to pop as well.

Would using 3PDT PCB's (such as these sold by Stinger) prevent applying too much heat on the lugs ?

[Paul Marossy]

I suspect that excessive heat while soldering to the lugs can cause it to pop as well.

Would using 3PDT PCB's (such as these sold by Stinger) prevent applying too much heat on the lugs ?

I don't see how. You still have to solder the switch to something....

[Hemmel]

I figured the PCB had more metal to solder the switch's lug to, so more heat was dissapating on the PCB hole than on a tiny wire. Resulting in less heat on the switch's lug.
Or am I way off ?

[Paul Marossy]

I figured the PCB had more metal to solder the switch's lug to, so more heat was dissapating on the PCB hole than on a tiny wire. Resulting in less heat on the switch's lug.
Or am I way off ?

Maybe. But it still greatly depends on the skill level of the person soldering it.

I've found that two things are a factor in that too much heat when soldering thing:
1. The type/quality of the plastic that the switch body is made of.
2. The quality of that goop (epoxy?) holding the terminals in the switch.

The higher the melting point of those two things the less problems you have. Seems like the better switches use higher quality stuff for both of those categories, which seem to resist heat better and for longer.