stupid pedal trick....the Scatterbox (npn ge shatterbox)

[pinkjimiphoton]

fixed. doth not soundeth like poo.

well, i mean it IS a fuzz..


here be video:

here be schematic:



i haven't revised the vero yet.

i discovered they @#$%ed this circuit up... or at least i believe they did.
i discovered the swell control was what made this pedal sound like dog doo.

info, to the best of my ability to explain it, here:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=105391.0

imho, this thing sounds freaking great now. no more wimpy fuzz with huge useless gain boost.
the fuzz is nice and thick, you can turn it from kinda compressed and cleanish to a nice overdrive to a big muffish to a fuzzy fizzy buzz from the fuzz control, and now the boost is not only independent, but controllable and useful.
the boost alone sounds great.

all by moving one part. ONE.
i'm betting the peeps who built these either didn't figure it out, or didn't take the time to tinker, or more likely made a simple mistake on the schematic... maybe it was a friday afternoon job.

all i know is electric warrior's trace is right. i built it (well, an npn ge version with all the same values other than trimmers on the c's) and it sounded just as crummy as the original, and sucked in a generally heinous way once ya kicked in the boost, which was just too much volume, or sounded just more trebley.

not anymore.

hope ya diggit. i would love opinions on whether you think i may be right.

peace out

pjp

[jrod]

Man, that does sound nice!

So, you just moved the "Swell" pot off the end of the fuzz circuit and added it to the beginning of the boost circuit?

[pinkjimiphoton]

yep. that's it. nite and day difference.

i was lookin' at it... and it just didn't make sense to have that huge resistance (2.2m) hitting another huge resistance (500k pot)
unless it was to pad down the signal a little, but keep the impedance high enough to be able to drive the next stage well.

i think.

i dunno. all i DO know, is this box sounds like shit stock. the videos, audio, etc... move this one part, and the circuit comes to life.



i am SURE some fur will be rubbed the wrong way by this, but i think it's the equvalent of a typo that went undiscovered for 50 years.

[Mark Hammer]

Q:  Do you get a new and different guitar for every one of these videos? 

[pinkjimiphoton]

you can never be too rich (i'm not)
too thin (i'm WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY not)

or have too many guitars.

i lose count, and tend to give 'em away to peeps as gifts some times... but at the moment...24? 25?

do ya count the double neck one twice?

[jrod]

yep. that's it. nite and day difference.

i was lookin' at it... and it just didn't make sense to have that huge resistance (2.2m) hitting another huge resistance (500k pot)
unless it was to pad down the signal a little, but keep the impedance high enough to be able to drive the next stage well.

i think.

i dunno. all i DO know, is this box sounds like sh*t stock. the videos, audio, etc... move this one part, and the circuit comes to life.



i am SURE some fur will be rubbed the wrong way by this, but i think it's the equvalent of a typo that went undiscovered for 50 years.

Help me understand this, bro! If you move the Swell pot off the fuzz circuit then you don't have any volume control when the only the fuzz is engaged. And if you engage the boost, the signal still passes through the 2M2 resistor before it hits the 500K Swell pot. Not sure how this make a difference.

[pinkjimiphoton]

it makes a difference because of a few things...

the fuzz doesn't need a volume control. the zonk machine, with three stages of gain, did. you can adjust the fuzz with the fuzz pot.

the level control as it was worked as a level control on the fuzz only. it was a wimpy fuzz, and could barely handle it.

you lose signal with pots. always. in this case, it kills the fuzz, and the fuzz doesn't really need a volume control..

moving it changes it from gain reduction to gain GAIN...  and you can adjust the volume of the pedal with the boost engaged.

with the volume at the end of the fuzz circuit, if you turn it down to make the gain boost useable, you turn the fuzz almost off.

if the volume was at the end of the boost, you could use it to adjust the volume globally... as long as the boost is on... by limiting the signal shunting it to ground. but moving it from where it was changes it from a volume control attenuating signal to a gain control determining how much the booster is gonna boost.

make any sense yet?

listen to ANY of the demos of the shatterbox, and then listen to mine. two different animals, one circuit with one part moved.

by moving the part, we change it's use from attenuation to gain. that's it bro.

i'm assuming, just as in a guitar, we have 500 k pots so we have a high enough load to the input of whatever where we don't lose signal, particularly high end. in this case, we have a blocking cap (.001) feeding a high resistance. if this was meant to drive another circuit, you'd usually want a lower impedance output to drive a high z input.

but i think in this case, that high impedance does a couple things... it limits the voltage coming from the second stage some, probably filters it somewhat, but im thinking it's real use is to have a high z driving the next stage. we gotta 2.2m signal driving a 500k pot... kinda like having a 500k pot drive a 68k input on an amp, with me?

i'm probably wrong, and/or overcomplicating stuff.

here's the thing. build one. try it both ways. tell me which way works better.

the stock version pretty much blows... it's unuseable.

i mean, i'm a hack, i'm an idiot... i've MADE mistakes like this... often. putting something on the wrong side of a switch sure makes more sense than designing something intentionally to sound like arse...

[jrod]

Thanks for the explanation! That makes sense now. I have never bothered with this circuit because I have heard how terrible it was, but your demo really does sound totally better! Very cool discovery you made there, Jimi!!!

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks jarod,
it does kinda make sense when ya look at it, as to why it sounded like ass... on paper, it looks good and should rock!!

move that one part, and a completely different animal emerges.

i'm pretty stoked, i may add it to my live board.

i love taking old crummy fuzzes and trying to make 'em live again...

in this case, really crummy....

after 50 years as an ugly duckling, this circuit is now a swan.

edit:

i THImK what it does is this... changes the function of the pot from a voltage divider to ground subtractive device from the output of stage 2 to an additive device, a gain control for the input of the final stage. sorry if my nomenclature blows, there's a fine line between clever and stupid.

instead of turning down the output of the fuzz, turn up the input of the boost. or down, as needed. plenty of drive coming from the fuzz stage to drive the input of the booster.

i am sorry if i rub any fur the wrong way just trying to learn..  and it seems like this has been a good opportunity for me, not to be smug, but so i can see if my understanding of what i cobbled together is "right" ...... or an accidental side effect or something.

thanks. 

fuzzy goodness. mmmy o myyyyy

[pinkjimiphoton]

here's the vero. in the video, it's without the 100k resistor to ground across the output of the board from the node of the .001u cap.

same vero as before, just had to re-arrange the labeling and wiring a little bit.



cuts n jumpers



cuts n jumpers backwards (like looking at it from below the board, which i find helpful YMMV)




original schematic



my rework, moving only one part, the 500k swell control




original layout



thanks for checking it out, and if you like it build one!!

peace

[kingswayguitar]

4:30 - 5:00


nice swan, nice

[pinkjimiphoton]

dude, you gotta build yourself one!!

[Quackzed]

that thing does sound pretty sick! it seems to have a vowely / vocal aspect when pushed, which gives it another dimension of expressiveness; the tone stays squishy and compressed but seems to open up as it decays and get extra squished when slammed.

i'm with ya as far as the real possibility of the original design getting botched along the way, makes no sense as it was/ much more sensible that the pot was intended as you have it now. but alas, the world may never know!
and hey, i tip my hat to ya man. you may have just paroled an innocent fuzz , and saved it from an undeserved ignominious fate!

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks gil, messed with it quite a bit today. i'm really digging it.
we'll never know, it doesn't really matter... but if one more fuzz is saved the fate of being pronounced "crappy"
my work here is done..