flying spaghetti monster fuzz oscilloscope screenshots

[pinkjimiphoton]

i used "osc 2.51" to try and see what the waveform of the flying spaghetti monster fuzz looks like, and tho i don't know what i'm doing, maybe they may be useful to someone or something.

it's in the "hey pink what's for dinner" thread. along with schematic, vero etc...

this is the one that uses a ge transistor as an active clipper in the feedback loop of an opamp.

i don't know really what to do, i tried to catch screen shots just as the wave settled in from the initial attack.

i don't have a test tone generator, so this is a 12th fret harmonic on the b string which i figure has to be somewhere around 1kh-ish

it's guitar into fsm, volume half, mid and tone full


gain off



25%



50%



75%



100%



composite... tried to get a dual trace thing but big learning curve x stupidity =  well. this...



it seems to almost be a more triangle-y wave distortion than a square wave... or maybe i'm not looking at it right?

peace

[pinkjimiphoton]

dang it!!! that's just the overdrive part... my bad... the transistor's base is lifted and the bloom n' boost part (the active part) isn't engaged... forgot i made it footswitchable.

duh.

brb

[Dave W]

set up your scope so you get 2 or 3 waves on the screen. then you can see more of what you are looking for.

[pinkjimiphoton]

sorry... here ya go... with the bloom n boost thing engaged, it's got some octavey stuff...

here's the same thing... b harmonic, 12th fret just after initial attack... 0, 25, 50, 75 and 100% on the gain knob



thanks for the advice dave, haven't figured out how to do that yet. i will try and have a play with it tomorrow, this is the first time i ever tried to use the thing.

[duck_arse]

see if you can find a "level trigger" setting, of some sort. set the setting high enough that it only triggers on the pick attack. see if it has a one-shot as well.

[GibsonGM]

see if you can find a "level trigger" setting, of some sort. set the setting high enough that it only triggers on the pick attack. see if it has a one-shot as well.

+1   And don't worry about showing the input signal for this....as long as you don't change anything, it's not important and will only be in the way.

I used to rely on the PC scopes, but when I got a real one I found that much of what I saw on the PC was generated by noise, weird intercapacitance issues and stuff.  Stuff you don't know about when coupling the things together.   

I am wondering why that wave is so triangle-ish...could suggest octaving that just isn't coming thru properly, or the time base isn't really representing what's really going on.   Oh, and sampling rate can really affect what you see, too! 

After tweaking, you will probably get some stuff that's close, though.   It's always good to compare with a scope to know if you're doing it right. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

thanks guys, i will try and mess with it soon and figure it out. my hardware scope had a lot less actions (before the bench it was on collapsed and it hit the floor) available.

i will look at the settings on this. i did it with my laptop, which was annoying as heck cuz i couldn't get the internal mic array to turn off... i think that's the green trace.

i appreciate the advice tho... the terms you guys gave me hopefully will help me tune it in. it's a cool box with some neat tones in it, and radically different visuals on the screen depending on the setting.

gotta get ready to leave for tonite's gig. i really need a day off.

oh yeah, i set the sample rate for this 48 rather than the usual 41, hoping to get more detail... i don't thinkit matters.

i do know this... i will never buy an hp laptop again!! what a pia!!

[teemuk]

it seems to almost be a more triangle-y wave distortion than a square wave... or maybe i'm not looking at it right?

What point are you scoping? To me it looks like post distortion filtering is just mangling the square wave-ish output. e.g. what happens to square wave when you hi-pass filter it?

[pinkjimiphoton]

its just the box into my computer... if i high pass filter it, the waveform changes quite a bit. these are all with the tone control (rams headish with added mid pot) both full

not sure how to get the waveform captured with this program, the damn help file won't open in win7 and i haven't had a chance  to mess with it since.

anybody ever used any of the freeware osc programs? is there one that's easier for a fool like me perhaps?

i was trying to catch the wave as it begins to sustain just after the attack. i don't know how to capture the attack part, cuz it looks way different!!

but i hoped these may show how the waveform is changing as the gain pot is moved. maybe i can find a screen capture tool or something?

[GibsonGM]

For PC I like "Virtual Analyser", Jimi - it's free and has some good features.  I still use it to generate sine, square and triangle waves from my PC for use in looking at filters and crap.   You can also sweep parameters, like run 1Hz to 20kHz over 5 seconds, etc.    Wicked useful.    You can capture screen at any time by pressing "print screen" and then going to a paint program and selecting "Paste", and paste the screen shot into it!  You probably know that.

Maybe you mean how to get the wave stable?   Run a TONE into it instead of fluctuating guitar note (1kHz is common), and set the time base control to make one non-moving wave visible.   It's counter-intuitive at first, but after a couple tries you'll be like OHHHH!  The triggering is supposed to keep the wave stable so you can see it.    I set up the PC analyser program to give me a 1kHz sine wave for 5 minutes that I recorded internally and burned on a disk, and I just measured the output of CD player to .5V and input that back into the computer thru my circuit.  Easier than it sounds....now I just run PC>>buffer  >> circuit  >> scope.

You're into this enough that you might consider saving $100 and grabbing a scope off fleabay, man!  I finally did, got a 1982 Tektronix 2213 60MHz scope.  It needed one diode on one channel, and now is 100% awesome!   Best piece of measurement equip. I ever picked up! 

Trouble with the PC thing is yeah, you get a general idea of what's up, but interference from everywhere really hammers you.  Like, little devil spikes on top of a square wave might be there (gain spikes), or might just be capacitance in your non-probes that you're sticking in the circuit.      The second I turned on a real scope, I could see (and nullify) that crap, and realized what I'd been looking at wasn't right!   But the PC will give you SOME idea of what's going on, and it's better than nothing.  I lived with it for 10 years, too!  Just felt really limited - and also, the 'function generator' sound card only goes up to 20kHz, of course.    Ok for us, tho.

[duck_arse]

a real oscilloscope will give real dc readings, too. when I used the soundcard cro w/ linux, dc was a no show.

[pinkjimiphoton]

For PC I like "Virtual Analyser", Jimi - it's free and has some good features.  I still use it to generate sine, square and triangle waves from my PC for use in looking at filters and crap.   You can also sweep parameters, like run 1Hz to 20kHz over 5 seconds, etc.    Wicked useful.    You can capture screen at any time by pressing "print screen" and then going to a paint program and selecting "Paste", and paste the screen shot into it!  You probably know that.

Maybe you mean how to get the wave stable?   Run a TONE into it instead of fluctuating guitar note (1kHz is common), and set the time base control to make one non-moving wave visible.   It's counter-intuitive at first, but after a couple tries you'll be like OHHHH!  The triggering is supposed to keep the wave stable so you can see it.    I set up the PC analyser program to give me a 1kHz sine wave for 5 minutes that I recorded internally and burned on a disk, and I just measured the output of CD player to .5V and input that back into the computer thru my circuit.  Easier than it sounds....now I just run PC>>buffer  >> circuit  >> scope.

You're into this enough that you might consider saving $100 and grabbing a scope off fleabay, man!  I finally did, got a 1982 Tektronix 2213 60MHz scope.  It needed one diode on one channel, and now is 100% awesome!   Best piece of measurement equip. I ever picked up! 

Trouble with the PC thing is yeah, you get a general idea of what's up, but interference from everywhere really hammers you.  Like, little devil spikes on top of a square wave might be there (gain spikes), or might just be capacitance in your non-probes that you're sticking in the circuit.      The second I turned on a real scope, I could see (and nullify) that crap, and realized what I'd been looking at wasn't right!   But the PC will give you SOME idea of what's going on, and it's better than nothing.  I lived with it for 10 years, too!  Just felt really limited - and also, the 'function generator' sound card only goes up to 20kHz, of course.    Ok for us, tho.

thanks mike, and DA, for this crucial info... for me, suddenly a whole bunch of dots got connected. i will research the program and get a copy.

my old tektronics scope is toast... when it hit the floor, the crt broke... but i still have my older single trace hardware model. i never really knew how to use it, but now maybe i can figure it out. used to just twist the knobs and look at the cool patterns.

it makes sense a tone would work better... that's (in my stupid way) why i was trying to use a harmonic close to 1k (which i'm assuming that a b has to be kinda close to, if "a" is 880 at the 5th fret of your e string)

i will try and play with it some more... i think it would be neat to be able to do all that stuff, and i really appreciate you taking the time to explain to me not only what to get and look for, but how to understand which controls so i can learn how to do it on my own. crucial. and presented in a way not over my head. thank you!!

so... would maybe RG's quick and dirty test osc be something i should build then, rather than using pc-generated tones?

for the other newbs... this is what i'm talking about:

http://www.geofex.com/FX_images/q&dosc.pdf

[GibsonGM]

a real oscilloscope will give real dc readings, too. when I used the soundcard cro w/ linux, dc was a no show.

Good point, D.A.   Just a lot more flexibility, and reliability, huh?  You know that what you're looking at is real!


Jimi - yeah, R.G.'s osc will do the job for sure.   There are a few designs for those out there, most any will be cool.   I used to try to 'make tones' the same way, with one note, and it's a pain, ha ha!!

It's well worth taking the time to play more with a scope, IMO. Youtube has tons of videos on how to get started, and you'll need to know some of the stuff even for using a pc scope.   

Basically you set your 'vertical deflection', or how much the squiggle goes up and down based on voltage input, and your 'time base', or how fast the line goes left to right!    Vertical deflection is the one where if you set it too low (too sensitive, like 1 mV per division) and input 5 volts, you can pop a diode like the one in the Tek I bought.  Just like an analog meter, gotta set the range right.

With the time base, you can show something like 10 cycles of something, or narrow that down to 1 or 2 nice, clean cycles (ideal).  You play with the trigger in conjunction with this, to make the wave steady.  Set the time base way off, and you won't see squat.  Have to play Tune In Tokyo with that one, he he.

Keep playing man, maybe get that single trace unit going - they have a lot of value, too!    Esp. to compare what you see on the PC with what a 'real' scope would... 

[Keppy]

i was trying to use a harmonic close to 1k (which i'm assuming that a b has to be kinda close to, if "a" is 880 at the 5th fret of your e string)

Not entirely on-topic, but that A is 440Hz, not 880. Sorry to be that annoying guy, I just wanted to save some trouble for people like me who remember random off-topic pieces of info they see on here.

[pinkjimiphoton]

a real oscilloscope will give real dc readings, too. when I used the soundcard cro w/ linux, dc was a no show.

Good point, D.A.   Just a lot more flexibility, and reliability, huh?  You know that what you're looking at is real!


Jimi - yeah, R.G.'s osc will do the job for sure.   There are a few designs for those out there, most any will be cool.   I used to try to 'make tones' the same way, with one note, and it's a pain, ha ha!!

It's well worth taking the time to play more with a scope, IMO. Youtube has tons of videos on how to get started, and you'll need to know some of the stuff even for using a pc scope.   

Basically you set your 'vertical deflection', or how much the squiggle goes up and down based on voltage input, and your 'time base', or how fast the line goes left to right!    Vertical deflection is the one where if you set it too low (too sensitive, like 1 mV per division) and input 5 volts, you can pop a diode like the one in the Tek I bought.  Just like an analog meter, gotta set the range right.

With the time base, you can show something like 10 cycles of something, or narrow that down to 1 or 2 nice, clean cycles (ideal).  You play with the trigger in conjunction with this, to make the wave steady.  Set the time base way off, and you won't see squat.  Have to play Tune In Tokyo with that one, he he.

Keep playing man, maybe get that single trace unit going - they have a lot of value, too!    Esp. to compare what you see on the PC with what a 'real' scope would... 

mike, thank you bro, your description of the knobs and their functions just taught me more than a couple years of headscratching ever did... it's fine to read something, but most stuff assumes you know... which i don't... so yes, i can read stuff, but it doesn't mean i'll understand it. this i understand well... i'm gonna print it as my own personal little tutorial.

and gonna try and get some build time in before i move, and make rc's osc... gotta do it when the wife ain't around..

and i just gotta big ol' bag of sealed nkt 275's....  dude... you know i can't keep my hands off 'em, especially cuz i never played with any before.

thanks again, and i mean it..  

[pinkjimiphoton]

i was trying to use a harmonic close to 1k (which i'm assuming that a b has to be kinda close to, if "a" is 880 at the 5th fret of your e string)

Not entirely on-topic, but that A is 440Hz, not 880. Sorry to be that annoying guy, I just wanted to save some trouble for people like me who remember random off-topic pieces of info they see on here.

an octave above a 440 is a 880, keppy. above that, 1760, yada yada

a 220 is an open a string

110 is also an a on a bass guitar. when we say a 440, we mean an a at 440 vibrations a second. from there it doubles or halves to produce different registers of the pitch we call "a".




"TRUE" a would be more like 444 actually.


http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html

("Middle C" is C4 )

Note   Frequency (Hz)   Wavelength (cm)
C0   16.35    2109.89
C#0/Db0     17.32    1991.47
D0   18.35    1879.69
D#0/Eb0     19.45    1774.20
E0   20.60    1674.62
F0   21.83    1580.63
F#0/Gb0     23.12    1491.91
G0   24.50    1408.18
G#0/Ab0     25.96    1329.14
A0   27.50    1254.55
A#0/Bb0     29.14    1184.13
B0   30.87    1117.67
C1   32.70    1054.94
C#1/Db1     34.65    995.73
D1   36.71    939.85
D#1/Eb1     38.89    887.10
E1   41.20    837.31
F1   43.65    790.31
F#1/Gb1     46.25    745.96
G1   49.00    704.09
G#1/Ab1     51.91    664.57
A1   55.00    627.27
A#1/Bb1     58.27    592.07
B1   61.74    558.84
C2   65.41    527.47
C#2/Db2     69.30    497.87
D2   73.42    469.92
D#2/Eb2     77.78    443.55
E2   82.41    418.65
F2   87.31    395.16
F#2/Gb2     92.50    372.98
G2   98.00    352.04
G#2/Ab2     103.83    332.29
A2   110.00    313.64
A#2/Bb2     116.54    296.03
B2   123.47    279.42
C3   130.81    263.74
C#3/Db3     138.59    248.93
D3   146.83    234.96
D#3/Eb3     155.56    221.77
E3   164.81    209.33
F3   174.61    197.58
F#3/Gb3     185.00    186.49
G3   196.00    176.02
G#3/Ab3     207.65    166.14
A3   220.00    156.82
A#3/Bb3     233.08    148.02
B3   246.94    139.71
C4   261.63    131.87
C#4/Db4     277.18    124.47
D4   293.66    117.48
D#4/Eb4     311.13    110.89
E4   329.63    104.66
F4   349.23    98.79
F#4/Gb4     369.99    93.24
G4   392.00    88.01
G#4/Ab4     415.30    83.07
A4   440.00    78.41
A#4/Bb4     466.16    74.01
B4   493.88    69.85
C5   523.25    65.93
C#5/Db5     554.37    62.23
D5   587.33    58.74
D#5/Eb5     622.25    55.44
E5   659.25    52.33
F5   698.46    49.39
F#5/Gb5     739.99    46.62
G5   783.99    44.01
G#5/Ab5     830.61    41.54
A5   880.00    39.20
A#5/Bb5     932.33    37.00
B5   987.77    34.93
C6   1046.50    32.97
C#6/Db6     1108.73    31.12
D6   1174.66    29.37
D#6/Eb6     1244.51    27.72
E6   1318.51    26.17
F6   1396.91    24.70
F#6/Gb6     1479.98    23.31
G6   1567.98    22.00
G#6/Ab6     1661.22    20.77
A6   1760.00    19.60
A#6/Bb6     1864.66    18.50
B6   1975.53    17.46
C7   2093.00    16.48
C#7/Db7     2217.46    15.56
D7   2349.32    14.69
D#7/Eb7     2489.02    13.86
E7   2637.02    13.08
F7   2793.83    12.35
F#7/Gb7     2959.96    11.66
G7   3135.96    11.00
G#7/Ab7     3322.44    10.38
A7   3520.00    9.80
A#7/Bb7     3729.31    9.25
B7   3951.07    8.73
C8   4186.01    8.24
C#8/Db8     4434.92    7.78
D8   4698.63    7.34
D#8/Eb8     4978.03    6.93
E8   5274.04    6.54
F8   5587.65    6.17
F#8/Gb8     5919.91    5.83
G8   6271.93    5.50
G#8/Ab8     6644.88    5.19
A8   7040.00    4.90
A#8/Bb8     7458.62    4.63
B8   7902.13    4.37


i figure 987.77 hz is close enough to 1k for rock and roll, and figured a harmonic would give the purest sine wave. it doesn't work that way unfortunately tho.

[Keppy]

Jimi, I still think you're off by an octave. Check out this one, with easier references:

http://liutaiomottola.com/formulae/freqtab.htm

[pinkjimiphoton]

kinda. bass and guitar are both notated one octave above their actual pitch.

[GibsonGM]

No trouble, Jimi, I've enjoyed messing with some of the stuff you've come up with!  That's what it's all about.  Keep on keepin' on, and enjoy those NKT 275's!!!!

For testing, 880 = 1K = 1.2K, honestly. Unless one was working on filter response or something.  We don't need much precision 'round here!!

I used 440 Hz for years, just for gain measurement etc. before I read somewhere that 1K was 'standard'.  *shrug*

[pinkjimiphoton]

they;re actually matched sets of nk275 and ac176.... gonna try one in the juergulator in a bit...

just got a blown experience pedal in, gonna tackle that tonite and see if i can make it fly again.