DIY combined re-amp/DI box? Or, 'Can I build a Pigtronix Keymaster?'

[peanutismint]

I've been reading up on how to properly use my guitar stomp box pedals as outboard effects with the rest of my recording rig. What I learned was that the sort of equipment I need in order to take in my source at line level, take it down to instrument level, pass it through all of my FX pedals and then bring it back up to line level would be a combination of a re-amp box and a DI box.

A lot of people suggested several different bits of equipment already on the market for such an application, such as the KeyMaster pedal from PigTronix, or another reamp solution (the EXTC SA) from Radial. Whilst I love both of these products (the PigTronix pedal in particular, with all its extra functions and features, such as 2 x mixable loop circuits and level adjustments...), I'm a bit cash poor at the minute and so wondered if I could build my own simple box that did the same job.

Basically it needs to be a guitar pedal type box which will combine both a re-amp circuit and a DI box in the same housing (and ideally small enough to fit on an already bustling pedal board!). I've seen that it's possible to buy a DIY reamp circuit pretty much already made online (called the 'Line2Amp' but it's not available here in the UK), and I'm also assuming, possibly wrongly, that a DI box circuit is also relatively simple to solder together to handle the output at the other end....

Does anyone think this kind of thing is possible? Could anybody link me to any useful websites/schematics etc, or even better where to buy the parts here in the UK?

[ashcat_lt]

If you run everything at unity, and don't create any ground loops, then you usually don't need anything but cables.  If you're talking about recording a passive guitar you'll want a decent buffer (super easy to build, or just use a Boss pedal - powered and bypassed) to plug into the line input.  Then, if you leave all the gains and faders at 0 (unity, not -infinity) the voltage that goes into the recorder is the same that comes out.  There is no meaningful mismatch on this side.  The line level output looks very much like a decent pedal output (if not better) and will drive your pedals or an amp just fine.

If you're recording actual line level signals, they could theoretically get too hot for a 9V pedal.  +4dbu is kinda right on the edge of passable for many stompboxes.  But there is some sort of volume control along the line, right? 

I guess this works best when recording to digital.  Guitar level signals can get a little low if you have to deal with tape hiss, but the S/N ratio of the guitar itself will never be as good as a line input straight to 24bit digital.

[slacker]

What is the rest of your recording rig? Like ashcat_lt said, providing it has input and output level controls you don't need any extra gear, just adjust the levels appropriately.

Welcome aboard

[wavley]

I've been reading up on how to properly use my guitar stomp box pedals as outboard effects with the rest of my recording rig. What I learned was that the sort of equipment I need in order to take in my source at line level, take it down to instrument level, pass it through all of my FX pedals and then bring it back up to line level would be a combination of a re-amp box and a DI box.

A lot of people suggested several different bits of equipment already on the market for such an application, such as the KeyMaster pedal from PigTronix, or another reamp solution (the EXTC SA) from Radial. Whilst I love both of these products (the PigTronix pedal in particular, with all its extra functions and features, such as 2 x mixable loop circuits and level adjustments...), I'm a bit cash poor at the minute and so wondered if I could build my own simple box that did the same job.

Basically it needs to be a guitar pedal type box which will combine both a re-amp circuit and a DI box in the same housing (and ideally small enough to fit on an already bustling pedal board!). I've seen that it's possible to buy a DIY reamp circuit pretty much already made online (called the 'Line2Amp' but it's not available here in the UK), and I'm also assuming, possibly wrongly, that a DI box circuit is also relatively simple to solder together to handle the output at the other end....

Does anyone think this kind of thing is possible? Could anybody link me to any useful websites/schematics etc, or even better where to buy the parts here in the UK?

Line2amp is a Peterson Goodwyn thing, he's a really good guy.  I do believe he has all the build docs on the site so you can source your own parts and build one.  Most reamp boxes are basically passive DIs turned around.  I've been using a passive DOD DI that I bought 25 years ago for $15 in reverse as a reamp box for years.  So like the others said, if you have gain controls you can probably just pad the output and connect everything up with what you have.  Otherwise, just pick up a couple of cheap used passive DI boxes if you want the sound of the transformer or if you have ground loop problems.

[peanutismint]

Thanks all. Let me explain a bit more about what I'm doing so hopefully it will make more sense.

I have a little stack of equipment (synths, FX, a mixer) that I've set up to try and breed a bit of 'creativity' in one corner of my studio:



The FX are all guitar stompbox style pedals and the mixer is a little Behringer Xenyx 1002. The way I've decided to route signal is that I'll send all of the instruments (synths, guitar/vocal mic if I connect them) out of the Behringer's FX send and then bring it back in on another channel (it doesn't have a dedicated FX return so I thought I'd use an unused line input - perhaps this is where I'm going wrong.....!!). I have to obviously keep the FX send of this 'return' channel all the way down or I get a feedback loop (it's possible due to Behringer's dubious build quality that even with the FX send all the way down on this channel it's still letting some signal bleed through, which might be causing problems....).

With this routing, though, I get a lot of 'noise' when I use any of the FX send pedals. Some of it's ground loop, the rest is just...I don't know how to describe it... it's just not 'clean', which I thought might be caused by the signal being cut/boosted so many times to get from instrument to desk to FX back to desk and out to headphones/amp/recording interface. Also I can't seem to have a mix where it's just the FX signal (i.e. 100% wet), but perhaps I'm doing something wrong.

The recording interface in this case is a Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 which I'll feed from the master outs of the little Behri mixer and into two of its line inputs....

I thought the problem might be that I'm trying to send a line out through the pedals and then back to the desk, so if I had a re-amp (or reverse DI) on the 'in' end to bring the signal down to instrument level, and then a DI box on the 'out' end to bring it back up to line, the signal might be a bit cleaner/clearer...

Or am I getting myself confused somewhere (I'm far from an expert!!)

[validlilko]

Your interface has 10 outputs, right? You could maybe use that to your advantage and ditch the behringer? I had a behringer mixer years ago.
I'm no hifi fanatic. But to me, everything played through it sounded like it was being played of a worn cassette

[Processaurus]

I agree, you can often do reamping through effects without transformers.  It's certainly worth trying before going to the trouble to make a box.  I built a Reamp box (instructions here) and while loving it for solving recording studio issues, I only usually use it to send a balanced signal through a snake to an amp or something-or-other in another room and attenuate it and convert it to unbalanced while benefiting from the noise cancellation of the balanced line.

With short runs of unabalanced cables from recorder (computer) to processors (pedals), and them being plugged into the same electrical outlet, there's less chance of ground loops and cable noise.

Your interface has 10 outputs, right? You could maybe use that to your advantage and ditch the behringer? I had a behringer mixer years ago.
I'm no hifi fanatic. But to me, everything played through it sounded like it was being played of a worn cassette

I was thinking of making an EQ bypass switch on a channel on my behringer mixer, to get it to sound more hi-fi, all the medium to nice mixing boards have the EQ bypass, just less stuff for the signal to pass through always sounds better, assuming it sounded good in the first place.

[peanutismint]

Your interface has 10 outputs, right? You could maybe use that to your advantage and ditch the behringer? I had a behringer mixer years ago.
I'm no hifi fanatic. But to me, everything played through it sounded like it was being played of a worn cassette

That might not be a bad idea actually... I think the new firmware for the Saffire allows it to be used as a standalone mixer (hard to believe it couldn't do that straight out of the box...). And then I could record any of my 'creative' streaks in good quality right from the source....

So with software routing, could I feasibly use any of the Saffire's channels as inputs, outputs, FX sends or anything else? Theoretically? Without needing to boost/cut the signal regardless of whether it's coming from a mic or a guitar or a keyboard or an FX pedal etc or going to another FX pedal or an amp or headphones etc??

I think I should learn how to use my interface a bit better!


UPDATE:

p.s. well lookee here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URuuWLzUgS8

Maybe I should be reading up on using my Saffire from the manual....