power filter help

[LightSoundGeometry]

what the heck am I doing wrong lol

I been for 4-5 days now trying to make one so I can use the turret style layout without hiss/squeal

I finally settled on what looks to be a beavis one but I am not worried about the LED ..or should I be?

I swear I got one to work ...but not now






the one pictured has a 330uf instead because I have exhausted all my other parts trying to get a power filter to work, seems pretty simple and straight forward , I should be able to make a power filter on a daughter board and run it ..

I would do anything if some one could help me with a simple low part count power filter I can run ahead of my turret layout which is the lpb1 by IvIark so you know the one I am referring to as I am sure you have seen it before.

[davent]

I missed what's it not doing?

[LightSoundGeometry]

I missed what's it not doing?

got one to work ..have it video as proof !!! 

so now, its not power filtering lol ...squealing still ..and for some reason the pedal works great on the cheap crate amp, then turn to BLAH on the vox tube amd with the voodoo lab power supply ..makes no sense .

[LightSoundGeometry]

got that pee 8 coming together and loud

but all of a sudden no power filters will work...I made like 25-30 of them and all other new circuits ..so my 1st one must of been pure beginners luck

the most puzzling thing is the way t works perfect on the crate but poooo pooo's out on the vox amp ..I havent slept in 5 days now workign day/night on this thing

[GibsonGM]

Uh oh, feedback theory time!  LOL 

Dude - filtering your power supply is a good idea, IF you have an unregulated and unfiltered supply to start with.   Maybe try your FX on battery, which needs none, and see what happens.  A normal regulator like an LM7809 with its associated caps is fine; shouldn't need more than what is called for in the application notes.     And the cap in your bias supply on the breadboard, of course.

NO amount of power filtering will stop hiss and squeal from a high gain circuit!  Shielding (when you put the PCB in an enclosure) can help an awful lot, but really...

What causes squealing with a high gain circuit is FEEDBACK.  Poor lead dress, capacitive coupling due to stray parasitics and the Miller effect capacitances present at the terminals of many active devices allow a small noise to go round and round, being re-amplified each time until it howls like Jimi at Woodstock.   The higher the gain of the circuit, the more potential to have these problems.

It's almost impossible to have GOOD lead dress on a breadboard...I personally just live with squealing when turned up until I box something. Use your axe's volume knob. 

R2 and the LED don't matter, omit them if you want...but keep in mind that clean power, while awesome, isn't a guarantee of quiet operation!  Every object in your space, like computer monitors etc., is also a noise source.  Local radio stations...high gainers just aren't quiet, man.  Getting one to shut up is extremely hard and has much to do with luck.

Get some sleep

[LightSoundGeometry]

Thanks gib - what about the amp situation? any reason it would poop out on the vox and not the crate? 

another question is the 390r ..they sell the Dale/Vishay but old school resistors but they are 383r (why are dale MIL suck weird values in comparison to other brands?) and can i use them instead of the 390r etc ..there are others that are close/same scenario. i am guessing with a 10% tolerance it will still be okay in a guitar effect circuit ?

they are 1% and dead on accurate , look so cool ..I hoep I can use the Dale ones like I want with the off values. i went through and measured a lot fo 25 and each one was right on the money/matching - sorry for grammar dead tired

[GibsonGM]

Well, depends what you mean by "poop out", man.  Is it quieter with the crate, and squeals more with the Vox?  Maybe there is more (or less!) capacitance in one amp's input circuitry...something is different...don't think it's really important, though. 

The input circuitry to the (likely solid state...) Crate will be different than the Vox (tube?) input.  Maybe the Vox is missing a grid stopper? (lol, inside joke).  Perhaps the Vox simply offers more gain, which aids the positive feedback...

Every single high gain pedal I've ever built, from a Dist+ to BMP to tube preamps with 4-6 gain stages all cranked...has gone WILD when cranked up, unenclosed, near my amp, my guitar is 20" from it....there are so many ways you're feeding that beast, power is probably least of your worries

BUT - like I mentioned, good clean power is GREAT...just that it won't solve *problems*  It can get rid of much hiss and prevent motorboating and should be a standard part of your chain, but there's nothing in that circuit that you can't just do on each board yo make (100R and a reservoir cap).   

Mainly I will do that on 'clocked' circuits, like a trem, that creates pulses of noise. Not for OD's and distortions.  You're playing while it's noisy, anyway!  ha ha  YMMV

[LightSoundGeometry]

works fine on the crate (minus that hiss/squeal I get most times), but poop out means its unusable. at times no sound, death mush like a squashed mud sputter ..unplug to the crate and works like a charm

similar to when you put the wrong transistors in a circuit and it just goes to blah but you can still tell it on

[karbomusic]

any reason it would poop out on the vox and not the crate?

Apologies if I missed all the obvious stuff by skimming and I don't know what poop out means... However, if you mean reduced volume etc... If you don't have some series resistance coming out of the op amp it could be the victim of capacitive loading which will cause oscillations that you may or may not be able to hear. This will eat up current and lower the output.

I just had this problem a few months back in a design. I couldn't figure out why the current would triple and output would suddenly drop when I maxed the volume on the device but only when going into one particular amp. I solved it by adding a 50r in series right before the output cap.

[Gus]

It could be the turret style layout long leads in the air can couple and feedback
Layout and understanding feedback paths will helps
Build it small on a perfboard or use a verified small strip board layout
layout is very important

do you have a picture of the build?

[LightSoundGeometry]

just those videos and the one picture shown

I am more interested in the Dale resistor thing..they have odd values like 200k and not 220k, or 18.7k instead 18k like of ones on tayda for example. can I replace them with the odd values like using a 200 dale/vishey instead of a tayda 220k

I found a place that has a bunch but all weird to me values

[amptramp]

STANDARD VALUE DECADE FOR 1% RESISTORS

Ohms*

10.0 14.7 21.5 31.6 46.4 68.1
10.2 15.0 22.1 32.4 47.5 69.8
10.5 15.4 22.6 33.2 48.7 71.5
10.7 15.8 23.2 34.0 49.9 73.2
11.0 16.2 23.7 34.8 51.1 75.0
11.3 16.5 24.3 35.7 52.3 76.8
11 5 16.9 24.9 36.5 53.6 78.7
11.8 17.4 25.5 37.4 54.9 80.6
12.1 17.8 26.1 38.3 56.2 82.5
12.4 18.2 26.7 39.2 57.6 84.5
12.7 18.7 27.4 40.2 59.0 86.6
13.0 19.1 28.0 41.2 60.4 88.7
13.3 19.6 28.7 42.2 61.9 90.9
13.7 20.0 29.4 43.2 63.4 93.1
14.0 20.5 30.1 44.2 64.9 95.3
14.3 21.0 30.9 45.2 66.5 97.6

*Standard Resistance value is obtained from the above
chart by multiplying by powers of 10.

i.e. 11.3 can be 11.3, 113, 1.13k, 11.3k, 113k, or 1.13meg

[GibsonGM]

just those videos and the one picture shown

I am more interested in the Dale resistor thing..they have odd values like 200k and not 220k, or 18.7k instead 18k like of ones on tayda for example. can I replace them with the odd values like using a 200 dale/vishey instead of a tayda 220k

I found a place that has a bunch but all weird to me values

Unless you're building a precision circuit, you CAN replace an R, or a C for that matter, with one 5 or 10% off.   You don't need to special order "200k ohm" resistors unless the circuit specifically calls for it.  If it IS critical, 99.99% of the time, it WILL say to use "1% tolerance parts" etc.     Use 220k. 

If you need a cap of .1u, and you only have .15, use it - the only exception I'll put out about that is that if you are making something that uses a specific frequency = maybe a sine wave generator - that will change (lower...) the freq. of operation a bit.  Could make you end up with 700Hz instead of 1kHz in a phase shift oscillator, etc.  But input/output caps?  I would not worry.   Use LT spice to see what the change would do, if you're concerned.    Shifting most tone control center freqs. a bit results in no or minimal audible change.... 

** WHAT are we calling "turret board", guys?  All I'm seeing in the vids is some BREAD BOARD work...turret boards are point to point systems for making tube circuits...some dudes have gotten into building our stuff on them, with awesome results, but they're permanent, not really for testing...could cause confusion to other readers so felt the need to clarify.

Plus - breadboards also exhibit stray capacitances that can add to parasitic oscillation and noise...

[duck_arse]

is there any chance that your circuit is good, and showing up a problem in one yr amps? measure across a lead plugged in each, for DC volts.

and those resistors - are they as cheap as tayda's? are they those glass-bodied ones? sure use em if they cost effective (or charge end user extra for the mogo).

[LightSoundGeometry]

I hope the vox aint broke, I am broke !



http://www.ebay.com/usr/bigsmythe74

[GibsonGM]

Don't pay so much for resistors   Get a set of carbon film ones like this  http://www.ebay.com/itm/10-values-50-each-500-pieces-of-resistor-1-4W-5-Carbon-Film-Assortment-Kit-/140974888665?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d2c216d9
They will actually make a build QUIETER.

The time for cork sniffing and mojo is probably still a ways off   Just my opinion, do what you like, but all carbon comps add is hiss, he he...again, in my opinion - altho there is much data to back this up. It's why old amps went "SSSSSSSSSSSSSS" and new ones don't...thermal noise...

[LightSoundGeometry]

I bought all the mojo for me   you are absolutely on to something though, I think only the active parts effect tone, the passive stuff is just noisy and old, prone to breakdown!

I experiment with them but have most reserved for the day I make my own final pedals. I want to keep ones for myself that were built later on after I know hat I am doing. I have to admit, after watching those PACE instructional videos, and my new gun, my soldering is not 100x better

what really gets me is only about 1 in 10 actually work..so I sell the ones off that do and keep practicing until i can make one every time I set out to make one..I think its the reason my wiring is not tight..I am not confident the build will turn out and prepared for deconstruction already lol

not in this for money, or a business, I just love this stuff as my hobby..hopefully I can keep selling off my prototypes/one offs and practice builds to buy a few nice pedals, like these i have been recently looking at and salivating over- a kyle Chase secret preamp, a Jimmy behan fuzz, a lumpy tone shop or some type of univibe..hoping one of the forum members makes me a delay someday as I still need a delay pedal ..I am using a 25 dollar donner delay right now and it is not working out lol