Fluke 87v for pedal building?

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Hello all,

My entry into the world of pedal building got delayed by building works but at least I have a new workshop now!

So I'm still making do with my cheap multimeter and want to treat myself to a nice new one. I'm happy to pay for something well made that will last forever so I'm not looking for anything cheap that will get binned in a couple of years.

At the moment I'm looking at the fluke 87v for a little over £200. Is there anything missing from this in terms of pedal and guitar electronics? Would I need to get a lcr or component tester as well?

Are there better options in this price bracket?

Thanks
Dave

[Phoenix]

A Fluke 87 is a wonderful multimeter, they are superbly robust, accurate, reliable and safe. And honestly it is massive overkill for pedal building. You would want something in that class of meter for tube amps because of it's high voltage ranges and safety features, but you will not take much advantage of those features with pedals.

Keysight (formerly Agilent, formerly Hewlett Packard/HP) and Gossen Metrawatt also offer multimeters in this price and class range.

Other less expensive options that still have good reputations include B&K Precision, Amprobe, Extech/Flir, Brymen and Uni-T.

Availability and prices of all these brands is highly variable in different countries around the world.

One great deal at the moment is the EEVBlog branded Brymen BM235.

There are also lower priced Flukes which will serve you well, including ones made in China, which are supposed to be only for the Chinese market, but are always available on eBay. They are still designed by Fluke and have their excellent safety features, but have lower specifications and much lower prices. Just be sure not to accidentally buy a Fruke

Multimeters are not able to measure ESR (equivalent series resistance) of capacitors, which can be important if doing repairs or using salvaged components. They also usually have a fairly limited range of capacitor values they are able to read - a dedicated tester is best for that. Only a few rare odd-duck multimeters are able to provide LCR measurements, but this is not so frequently needed in pedal building. A component tester is a very useful piece of equipment, especially if doing repairs, and an in-circuit transistor tester is another slightly different piece of equipment that can also be invaluable. None of these pieces of equipment is absolutely essential though, and are probably best purchased as the need arises.

If you do buy the Fluke, you will never regret it, but it may be worth spreading your budget out over a few different pieces of equipment. I'd recommend spending that sort of money on an oscilloscope like a Rigol DS1054z rather than a single multimeter. Oh, get two or three multimeters, sometimes you want to take more than one measurement at once, or sometimes you might not trust a measurement you're taking, so compare it with the others.

Good luck with your purchase.

[Kipper4]

I bought the made for china market Fluke 17B and for my needs its more than enough.
I hope it will last a long time too.
As Phoenix points out an oscilloscope is worth having. Even an second hand CRT scope.
I hope you find what suits your needs.

[duck_arse]

Hello all,

My entry into the world of pedal building got delayed by building works but at least I have a new workshop now!

we have a thread for that, too:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=80329.0

[blackieNYC]

The feature they have is dB.  An accurate dB measurement, which I believe requires the feature of true rms voltage measurement. A cap meter is nice. DB I find very valuable.  With that and an iPhone tone generator, I rarely use my o'scope.
You can find dB on other meters for a lot less than the fluke.  And they are not garbage.  I have flukes at work, and a radio shack something at home.  It's perfect. 

[PRR]

> dB measurement, which I believe requires the feature of true rms

At some level, you are correct. "dB" is generally understood to mean POWER (or voltage in known impedance), and on extreme waveforms the "voltage" (peak? average?) may not imply the power you think.

I think "true RMS" is NOT essential in most audio work.

(OTOH, now that it costs less than a buck on the chip, and few-dozen bucks on the model range, I have NO objection.)

DO check the frequency response!! The older "true RMS" worked good for 50-400Hz power systems but rolled-off above 1KHz. I gather that newer ones go higher. But no "true RMS" can go as high as a Peak or an Average meter. (For comparable money and accuracy- a thermocouple RMS can go GHz but is a pig for power and calibration.)

We "do not need RMS" in audio because we "usually" work with Sine or Sine-like waves. Huge % THD does not really change the reading.

In a literal sense, we don't need "RMS" to do dB _if_ we have the same wave-shape at both levels. Which we usually do. If we are pushing into clipping, then the "dB gain" number is meaningless unless we also express the relation of signal level to distortion curve.

{old man mode} A mental table of dB ratios has served me well. When a finer number is wanted, slide-rule. Or a $13 TI-30 calculator. Either a TI or the 'Roos is always on my bench. {/old man mode}

To the question:

I have the lesser Fluke 83. I don't regret the extravagance (it was pre-owned), but it does a dozen things I have NEVER needed. (And I have stranger needs than pedal builders.) Some of the things it does are "quick checks" for field techs with extensive service documentation. Things that, on my bench with some strange gear, I would want a 'scope to back-up the Fluke's pure numbers. Is it really a 69% duty-cycle? Or is it a wobble-wave with 69% of it over the Fluke's arbitrary threshold? In audio, when you get past the basic DC and signal-level checks, a 'scope and a *2nd* DMM are IMHO more useful than a 27-feature meter when only 3 or 6 features are needed. In today's market, 200 clams buys two not-crap DMMs plus an unboxed LCD 'scope.

Fluke does boast a lifetime warranty. I have less expensive meters 30 years old still serving well. (The 60 yo meter needs a cleaning.) When low-price meters do go bad, I do not cry much. I see good measurement tools like a carpenter does. Treat your level nice, but when it gets crooked, just replace it and go on with the job.

[alanp]

For distortions, fuzzes, overdrives, that sort of thing, you don't need an oscilloscope.

Once you start getting into more complicated pedals (anything with a LFO or clock, for a kick-off), they are very, very useful for troubleshooting.

[Stevenscustomguitars]

Thanks for the advice so far.

Can anyone offer advice on what features to look for, like what range/resolution I need or recommend specific models ? I'd like a known brand with good safety features.

If the 87v is overkill is there a lesser Fluke that would be perfect and have all I need. I've seen a 87v for £180.

Thanks
Dave

[stallik]

After my 10 year old Fluke failed terminally, I replaced it with a Uni-T60E. It has an optical PC connection for data logging which has been useful on many occasions. It doesn't do everything so I have a separate capacitance meter and a Peak transistor tester. My Oscope is PC based.
Everything cost lest than £100 and I'm now converted to the idea of separate devices which are cheaper to upgrade individually. As a result I've not missed my old Fluke

[Rixen]

a simple audio signal tracer is a great tool to have, and very cheap/easy to make

[merlinb]

If the 87v is overkill is there a lesser Fluke that would be perfect and have all I need. I've seen a 87v for £180.

Why the obsession with Fluke? There's nothing they can do that a cheaper brand can't do. Guitar pedals have the least demanding requirements of pretty much any branch of electronics you could choose! Range / resolution are non-issues.
An oscilloscope would be a far better use for your money than a multimeter. If you're still determined, get yourself a 17B and use the remaining money (that you're obviously desperate to spend) for other instruments as and when you develop a need for them.

[Rixen]

I've been trying out this USB oscilloscope, about $USD 30.

https://www.surplustronics.co.nz/products/7009-pcb-scope-oscilloscope

Been meaning to do a bit of a write up on it. Basically it works as advertised, with a few quirks such as a DC offset when the probe is open circuit, and a window that can't be maximised. Does long term logging and has a multimeter mode which is handy.

I've put it in an enclosure with a couple of BNC connectors.

Of course it won't replace a dedicated scope in terms of bandwidth etc..

Probably the main issue I have with PC based instruments is that I usually want my laptop for other things...

[Stevenscustomguitars]

If the 87v is overkill is there a lesser Fluke that would be perfect and have all I need. I've seen a 87v for £180.

Why the obsession with Fluke?

.....get yourself a 17B and use the remaining money (that you're obviously desperate to spend)

Erm, no obsession with fluke at all.    I know very little about multimeters other than knowing Fluke is well regarded. I'm looking for any advice on alternatives as well.

And I'm in no way desparate to spend money, I just want a quality meter.

I've been looking at Brymen as well

[merlinb]

I've been looking at Brymen as well

I've used a Bryman bench multimeter which I found to have an annoying user interface, but it did seem well built.
Nothing wrong with Tenma either.

[Rixen]

also bear in mind you may one day call on your meter to do more than assist with pedal building, like, is my pizza oven at the right temperature or is there power truly off at the wall outlet before sticking screwdrivers in (watch the CAT rating of the meter for this ! and check your meter reads on a known good circuit)...