Taking the powder coating plunge !

[davepedals]

Sorry, I'm not certain whether or not this subject belongs in this particular forum or not.  If not, please either move it for me, or just pop me on the head a couple times and I'll remember not to do it again, ha ha!


For at least the last three years I have considered purchasing powder coating equipment , figured it would cost too much so I really didn't look in it much.  Also thought there would be an extremely expensive and time-consuming learning curve.  Boy was I wrong! Either I'm just extremely lucky this month, am experiencing superb karma combined with beginners luck, or just have a knack for I don't know !


Bumped into an old buddy of mine haven't seen in 12 years I guess, spent pretty much the entire day with him in his small shop doing what? Powder coating! His work is amazing , doing the multi-tone stuff and things I probably will not attempt for at least several months from now.


What really grabbed my attention was how many pedal enclosures you can actually do with this powder coating versus the cost of spray cans . And I'm talking the quality powder, not harbor freight! My first try I thought I had not covered one area of the enclosure very well even though he assured me I had, well that's just the way I am – he's the expert, I'm the noobie, yet I knew darn well I wanted more powder in that one little area. He was right I was wrong! And in the curing process, I had a bit of what they call orange peeling on that area that I overcoated . Really screwed it up but no big deal , four dollar enclosure , and perhaps $0.50 in powder coating wasted, no big deal. I believe he later wetsanded it with 400 grit.  I'm not really sure I wasn't paying attention as I should've been, had to make a quick trip to the store while he was working on it.  But after I came back at days end he had it looking extremely professional in my opinion, I thought it was a completely different pedal.


My friend is actually using the Harbor freight powder coating system which I believe is roughly $70 USD.  He does not use Harbor freight powder coating powder however, says the flat black stuff isn't so bad , but stay away from all other colors. His powder of choices from a company called:  prismaticpowders.com.  The stuff we used I believe it was fire red not really sure of the name , just a single coat type powder. Had a little tiny yellowish looking or gold metalflakes, tiny but very cool looking in the light.  Also used a nice bright copper color on a few enclosures. All of them came out of the oven with that molten glass look.  Indeed I was impressed, enough to pull the trigger on the purchase myself , I expect my system to arrive this Friday – I sure hope! Also ordered a color that looks like a lot of old Fender Mustang's I have admired for years, seafoam green , but with some little metalflake In them, along with several other cool looking colors... Well I'm excited!


Decided to build a portable foldable painting enclosure so I can get it out of my way when needed. Pretty much just one by twos for the frame with hinges of course, and some thick tarp material for the walls . The back wall of course will be the most sturdy part of the frame since it will be supporting two window type fans for pulling that nasty dangerous dust away from me and depositing it in a small area behind the fans and air filter for easy disposal.




$69.97 for the powder coating system, got a nice discount!  I already have a quality air compressor, thank goodness that saved me a few bucks! $46 for respirator, already had some quality painting goggles. $53 for 3 pounds of high-quality powder coating colors, with free one-day shipping, $15 for some high heat silicone plugs, of course the keep the powder coating out of the little nooks and crannies like screw holes, etc. Got 175 different sizes.  And finally about $20 bucks for the wooden tarps and already had the fans I needed for the booth.  I'm too bloody tired to do correct math right now but figuring I'm right at about $209.00 USD for the setup.  I've had a few chuckles from friends this evening already about me buying the harbor freight system, however it has probably 100 or more excellent ratings, and that happens to be the set up that my friend is been using for three or four years now, while he does admit it's a bit more fragile than some of the more expensive systems, just take care of it - don't throw around like an old rag doll, clean it each time you use it and it will be your friend for many many years.  Oh yeah – never touch the metal or aluminum item you are painting while actually working the piece or you'll get a nasty 14,000 V shock! Apparently after painting your application you are supposed to turn the unit off and touch the grounding lead to the front element of the spraygun to discharge the electricity. Hmmm..., I wonder how loud that discharge pop is going to be?  Maybe earplugs would be a nice purchase as well.


I don't know how many of you are interested in powder coating your own enclosures as I am now of course – and I'm sure I will have quite a few failures along my road of learning , but like I said – after only my second enclosure he told me it looked great , Store-bought product in his opinion... and that was a needed pat on the back for myself. It's really not that hard to learn.  My Lord, the things over the years that I have wanted to be powder coated but knew it was just too expensive to take somewhere to have it done. Finally I'll be able to do it myself. My apologies, but I do feel like Christmas has come again! I'm gonna work very hard at this, spent a lot of time perfecting my work.  If anyone is interested in this project, I will of course be taking photos of my booth build, and of course my successes and failures along the way. I do believe there are no more paint cans in this guys future!  Please excuse any typos and overly excessive giddiness on my part!  – Dave.

[EBK]

Thanks for breaking down the costs for everything and sharing your experience.  I've wondered before what sort of investment would be involved with that.

There is a TechShop near me that has powder coating equipment (and a TON of other cool toys).  I'd have to first take a $99 class on sandblasting and power coating, then pay for a membership ($50 day pass or $150 monthly) to do it, but I think that sounds more reasonable to me now.  (Plus, I have a small property and small children that would prevent me from reasonably owning my own gear...)

Can't wait to see some pics of your setup and some of your work!

Some quick questions though: $53 for 3 pounds of powders.  How many colors?  How many pedals (allowing for reasonable number of Mulligans) would that coat?

[rutabaga bob]

Congrats, Mr. Dave!  Hope you have many happy years of pedal-building! 

A sandblaster is something to think about - it is definitely easier to remove powder coating with one of those than to try and sand an enclosure clean.

Take care with that powder - it gets everywhere.  I used to work in a metal fab shop that also had powder-coating and screen-printing sections.  Even with the dust collection equipment, that powder floated through the plant.

Looking forward to the photos!

[Ice-9]

I've been powder coating my stuff for years now, many benefits to powder coating over spray painting, the biggest benefits for me are the easier cleaning up of equipment after use and as soon as the enclosure has cooled down I can screen print it. No days of waiting for paint to cure and harden.

Biggest drawback for me, if I make a complete pigs arse of powder coating an enclosure it needs rubbed down to reclaim it. I have not found anything that will remove the cured powder like you can for removing paint. So any failed enclosures go in the bin rather than waste my time sanding them down. Thankfully this happens very rarely.

Two things that would make powder coating even more enjoyable are a bigger oven than I presently use and a blasting booth. The issue with blasting is you need quite a powerful compressor.

I look forward to seeing some of your results when you start to use the powder coating gear.

PS when you discharge the tip of the gun it doesn't make a load bang !! it makes a little click (not even as loud as the mechanic click of a 3PDT footswitch)

[davepedals]

Quote from: EBK on Today at 07:34:28 AM

Some quick questions though: $53 for 3 pounds of powders.  How many colors?  How many pedals (allowing for reasonable number of Mulligans) would that coat?

EBK,


This information was obtained from the company I got the powder from:

--- "One Pound of Powder:
In our opinion, a pound of powder will generally cover about 25-30 sq ft. keeping in mind this coverage will vary with mil thickness, the equipment being used to apply the powder, and the type of finish that is being applied." ---

I purchased three different colors, some pretty high-quality stuff so it was a bit more expensive per pound, I believe I paid anywhere from $11.50, to $15 a pound depending on the color I got. The one-day shipping of course added to the cost at $13.25.  Of course good-quality powder can be had for around $9.50 per pound.  I could not resist the more expensive super cool looking colors however!  I'm going to research whether or not I can also buy that same brand here locally... however they will ship 13 pounds for $13.25 one day service, not bad really!

Your typical 12 ounce spray paint can yields anywhere between eight to 20 square yards, again depending on how many coats , and how thick you lay it on.  Also I have to consider the two coats I normally put of primer on my enclosures as well.  Since I normally do two coats of etching primer, 4 to 5 coats of my main color, and 2 to 3 clear coats ... I can't see how I'm not saving money!  Perhaps not quite as much as I had anticipated, however the durability itself would even be worth an extra buck or two per enclosure if that were the case, which I don't think it will be.  The booth that I am designing that will be pulling the dust away from me and my lungs will be deposited in a back compartment of the enclosure which will have a tarp type material in it shaped kind of like a bag.  Depending on the humidity conditions of your work area, in many cases you can reclaim any of the unused powder for reuse.

1590a enclosures? Not 100% positive, but I think I can probably get perhaps 30 1590a's out of a pound of powder. Maybe more, maybe less just not sure yet.  When using spray paint, I 've never really counted my usage of primer or clear coat, however if I remember correctly from one 12 ounce spray paint can of my main color I believe I have been getting eight to maybe 11 enclosures done with them.  I learned a long time ago to always spray very light coats with regular spray paint if I wanted to good results , and that takes quite a few coats for me to achieve good results.  The powder coating process is much quicker, and rather than having to wait 3 to 5 days, trust me I've waited up to 12 days for paint to dry properly... My enclosures can now be ready to touch soon as they come out of the oven hot... not that I'll be doing that!  All in all I think I made a good decision, before I waste all of my expensive paint, I'm gonna get some aluminum scrap, clean it up very well and test my novice powder coating technique until I have it down good.  -Dave

[PRR]

> a pound of powder will generally cover about 25-30 sq ft.

A gallon of brush-paint will cover 200+ sf and runs about 10 pounds.(*)

So cover/pound is about the same, no shock. (Your acreage may vary yada yada...)

However $100+/gallon is very expensive paint. Yes, fine yacht-paint, exotic car paints, and also small rattle-cans run this expensive.

(*)Yes, solvent runs well under 7 pounds/gallon, but pigments are heavy.

[davepedals]

You know I read another article recently that stated that a pound of the powder would cover about as much area as 6 - 7  12 oz. spray cans.  I couldn't tell you how many spray cans I have purchased, even the best brands - the expensive stuff only to have the air run out when I know there is still half a can of paint left in the thing. That's another thing irritating me lately and it's gotten me to pull the trigger on this stuff.  In some ways I do wish I could use paint indican with a brush... However I've tried and tried and I really suck at that! Even the Hammered stuff!

[anotherjim]

I'm told you can pressurise spray cans with a compressor or foot pump. Sounds tricky to me. It is very annoying how often the propellent runs out before the contents.

[EBK]

I spent some time on that Prismatic Powders website yesterday.  Options overload!  So many colors, textures, finishes, etc.  If I could only choose 3 powders, it would be difficult.
Would probably pick Splatter Black (I assume that would be close to Hammond's textured black boxes), but would have to see samples in person to pick anything else. 

[davepedals]

Yeah, many choices for sure!  Black is my fave pedal color but I have no way to print labels other than black right now.  Got a color laser printer so maybe one day I'll buy the toner for it. 


Anotherjim.... I'm sure if I tried three pressurize a spray can I would end up blowing it up in my face which I really don't want to do.  It appears that I ordered one topcoat by mistake, it's a copperish gold color  semi transparent . I did not realize when I made the order. Seems I now have to get a chrome color for basecoat before using the topcoat and it will give it a simlar look to  my John five telecaster.. the gold one. Kind of a gold chrome mirror type look , that should look pretty darn cool , but now I have to buy another pound of paint to do it. I'm actually thinking about using a can of spray paint chrome that I have which is high heat  and using that as the base coat first just as an experiment.  The rest of my equipment arrives this afternoon .

[EBK]

Yeah, many choices for sure!  Black is my fave pedal color but I have no way to print labels other than black right now. 

Looking at many of the project photos on that powder site, you can somehow add your labels using another layer of powder, or at least add a lighter colored rectangle or similar to serve as background for a decal. 

It appears that I ordered one topcoat by mistake, it's a copperish gold color  semi transparent . I did not realize when I made the order. Seems I now have to get a chrome color for basecoat before using the topcoat and it will give it a simlar look to  my John five telecaster.. the gold one. Kind of a gold chrome mirror type look , that should look pretty darn cool , but now I have to buy another pound of paint to do it.

That's another thing that confused me on that site.  So many powders are translucent or otherwise merely add an effect to other powder layers.  Looks like you would need Super Chrome underneath any of the other chrome colors for full effect. But, Super Chrome has a warning about specific application and cure schedule requirements, meaning it is probably not great for beginners, I guess.

And, many of the powders require Clear Vision on top to get the desired results (the Illusion series of colors look pretty cool).

[davepedals]

Great idea about painting out a lite colored rectangle to do labels I hadn't thought of that. And yes indeed the illusion colors are awesome I'll have to try that someday when I win the lottery! There are actually clearcoats , just regular clearcoat powder coating that you can cover them with for more gloss or to cover labels with . All of the powders I ordered have a fairly high l gloss 85 to 95% .

[davepedals]

Small update – well I have received my powder coating equipment, gun , and several paints to experiment with. Naturally I forgot my clearcoat! Although you don't really need it with that many colors I completely forgot about clearcoating my labels! Well doh!

Have read a few articles that concern me lately about clearcoating labels . Using powder coat methods of course, the fact that many people are having problems with yellowing . But again other articles I've read state that the problem is because these people were using inkjet waterslides which must be coated with acrylic spray, and that it's the acrylic paint that is actually yellowing, not the water slide material itself . But I guess I have that in the pocket since I use a laser printer anyway along with a laser medium waterslide. Still it has me wanting to do what I've done the last 20 years of my life, have a backup plan!

About 12 years ago I played around with screenprinting, lots of fun ... Only did two color printing but it was easy , cheap , and really got great results with it since you have so many different mesh sizes to get different I guess you would say DPI resolution out of what you're printing. So why not make a small screenprinting jig for different sized enclosures? Then I can simply purchase UV curable ink for screen printing? I'm pretty darn sure they sell it , and I could build a UV exposure cabinet for probably 25 or 30 bucks . I think there are several manufacturers of pedals out there that use this method.

Anyway as I began , I have all my materials and equipment but have not painted a single enclosure yet. My garage is really junky and that's going to be my work area. I have a lot of spring cleaning to do but I'm hoping in the next week or two I'll have photographs to share some of the enclosures I have powder coated .
Prost!

[rutabaga bob]

Not sure re the UV on metal, though I would imagine so.  One company I worked at that made beverage merchandising displays used UV on plastic.

[Ice-9]

About 12 years ago I played around with screenprinting, lots of fun ... Only did two color printing but it was easy , cheap , and really got great results with it since you have so many different mesh sizes to get different I guess you would say DPI resolution out of what you're printing. So why not make a small screenprinting jig for different sized enclosures? Then I can simply purchase UV curable ink for screen printing? I'm pretty darn sure they sell it , and I could build a UV exposure cabinet for probably 25 or 30 bucks . I think there are several manufacturers of pedals out there that use this method.

This is exactly how I powder coat and screen print my enclosures, although I find the screen printing bit a pain in the rear. Really I just find it time consuming to make the screens, washing out and reclaiming. I have been looking for some solvent based UV inks, but in the UK it is just so hard to source a lot of stuff, I use Mercury inks at the moment which are very durable but clean off with acetone easily which good if you have a bad print as the acetone does not damage the powder coating at all.

I look forward to see some of your powder coating when you get some pictures done.

[Ice-9]

How are you getting with your powder coating, would love to get some pics and details of you progress. 

[davepedals]

I wish I had a progress report, my wife's father died awhile back and we are still setting the estate.  It's been time consuming to say the least.  Seems every week I think I can get a start on the powder stuff something comes up!  Shouldn't be too much longer though I would think, and I will definitely be keeping my promise to post pictures maybe a short video, etc. also on the screenprinting progress and types of paint that I'm using. I appreciate your interest.

[Ice-9]

I wish I had a progress report, my wife's father died awhile back and we are still setting the estate.  It's been time consuming to say the least.  Seems every week I think I can get a start on the powder stuff something comes up!  Shouldn't be too much longer though I would think, and I will definitely be keeping my promise to post pictures maybe a short video, etc. also on the screenprinting progress and types of paint that I'm using. I appreciate your interest.

I'm sorry to hear of your loss Dave. Having to deal with the loss of family or friends is always a difficult time.