Dunlop crybaby troubleshooting

[GibsonGM]

The point I was making is that I like my wah's stock, that's all, Antonis.   I run it first in my chain.  No need for searching, a stock 1977 Crybaby from Thomas Organ has just the right amount of loading effect!   Maybe I'm the only one who thinks 10K isn't so bad?? 

The long cable is so I can get the h3ll away from my amp...but yes, talking about preferences is sort off the topic, but does relate a little in that the OP can just bypass the buffer if he likes, and he may like the sound...

He could place the Mosfet boost where the buffer now is...   

[pinkjimiphoton]

hahahah parks, don't ya want the boost AFTER the wah part?

i took the buffer from mine, and had it feed the other side of a dual 100k pot, so now i gotta active volume pedal when the babe is bypassed.

i don't care about a little tone suck either. thats what god invented FUZZ for.

[GibsonGM]

Right on, Jimi!  I was just messin' with the boost before thing - it's an inside joke with Antonis, who is often  concerned because my favorite circuit block is an AMZ Mosfet Boost - I talk about it a lot, and that makes him wonder sometimes, I think...I mean, no signal?  Ok, let's get out the Mosfet boost!
LOL

[pinkjimiphoton]

BFM

brute force method   

[GibsonGM]

BFM

brute force method   

Sometimes it's the only way...!  Looks like the owner of the OPs wah may have tried that approach....

[pinkjimiphoton]

BFM

brute force method   

Sometimes it's the only way...!  Looks like the owner of the OPs wah may have tried that approach....

well, with a big enough booster, you can get an arc to complete the circuit i bet.

i think its easier to use a blown led for that tho, just bridge it where you need the spark to jump


on a side note, i've found that sometimes blown leds work good in diode clippers which makes no sense whatsoever, cuz once they're popped....

but yah man!! i'm all for wiring in a 200 watt marshall major to make sure the signal gets thru. little boost? lets make it count, bro!! lol

its like a blocked garden hose. if ya can't get the water thru, turn up the water flow. eventually that water is gonna find its way thru somewhere

[GibsonGM]

No, no, it's a joke, man!!  Don't do it!    Boosters go AFTER!  I have never gotten a good sound by pounding on things like fuzzes, distortions, or (he he) chorus pedals with a boost before them!!    Not to say you won't get a good tone by doing it, have at it, but that don't work for me.   I want more gain, I"ll add another stage inside...something about over-riding a design's input stage by kicking it bad bothers me.

I'm all about mosfet boosts (and JFET, etc) because of my search to maintain my tone AND boost for solos.   They are clean boosting.  So I run a very clean Fender amp, get my dirt from pedals or a tube pre, and boost after them, thereby achieving super boost without relying on a sound man.   I do like to cut some bass when I do this...I can't stand the "turn it down, the jumper the volume to boost' approach, I feel it removes too much b@lls.

Also, mosfet boosts make great foundations for other projects as simple gain stages!  Some people fix on the LPB-1 for that, or the output section of a Big Muff. Same thing.    So I recommend that newbies get into them, as they are simple and foundational, can be used all over.   

That's all. 

[pinkjimiphoton]

haha, i was just joking too mike, taking the BFM to the extreme. i mean, if ya put enough of a boost in front of an open circuit, sometimes it will work, right??? 

lol

i like boosts too. i put 'em after my volume pedal before my modulations, with all my dirt and wahs and stuff before the volume pedal, so i can use it like the master on my amp.

if i want it cleaner, i turn down the guitar and turn the vol pedal up, if i want it dirtier, i turn the volume pedal down and the guitar up.

i set my tone up like that, and then use my boost for solos if i need to cut.

check out my pink's clipper project sometime, it makes a great boost. its a jfet style boost instead of mosfet tho.. ne5532 based. maybe a 5534. been a while, i forget!! very loud cleanish boost, kinda makes everything sound like you'r eplaying thru a cranked plexi. cleanish with a touch of bite, real responsive and loud as hell. if you like your stuff to have big balls for solos, you may digg it bro.

peacE!

sorry to derail the thread momentarily!!

[GibsonGM]

JFETs are mint...the only boosts I don't like much are opamp but they have their place.  That's a great way to describe this 'approach, Jimi, like a master volume!  I used to use a *cough* digitech pedal on stage (because it was easy) with the expression pedal tied to distortion level....so by cranking my vol. with a boost, I could use my foot for distortion level DURING a solo - roll it up, back it off, and it was pretty dynamic.   I'm trying to set that up with a tube preamp (expression pedal) but haven't got around to it (YET)...probably vactrols...

<OT off>   Maybe he'll come back with why that buffer wasn't working?

[pinkjimiphoton]

mike, i dunno if you ever tried this trick, but i think you'll like it.

if you have a guitar with two tone controls, like a les paul or strat, change the wiring so you have "50's" wiring and a master treble and bass cut control

here's how to do it...

instead of moving the location of the tone controls from the input of your volume to the wiper, disconnect them completely.

i use the top knob for treble, and the bottom for BASS.

when ya cut your bass, the volume and distortion decreases ridiculously.. its almost the same effect as what you describe with the digitech and boost, but you can do it right from your guitar with any dirt pedals ya want!

i mean... you can take, say, a big muff, roll the bass off some and make it sound like an overdrive. or crank the bass up and make it wooly.

there's passive treble bass (ptb) diagram's on joe gore's tonefiend website, or i can up you one. i do it different from him... same concept but different application. on joe's diagrams, the bass cut happens as you turn the bass knob up... so turned all the way down is full bass.
to me, that's counterintuitive. most people think "up"  with guitars. if your bass control is cranked and rolling it off, people freak out if they don't know to turn it down, lol.. so i wire it exactly opposite of how he shows for the high pass filter part.

anyways, instead of doing it as joe shows it, i go right from the output of the switch to the jack, and cut the wire before it gets to the output. this goes to the input side of the treble cut control. then the new output will come off the bass cut.

here's a diagram. it works tit. you can dial in pretty much anything from a les paul to a strat to an almost gretsch or rick or tele sound, hell, cut all the bottom and it sounds a lot like a teisco del ray. may not SEEM useful, but once ya try it and can control your distortion off the guitar itself, you may get hooked!!

i use slightly different value caps since i drew this up, usually 3.3n for the bass cutm and 47n for the treble cut.
you can use the existing wires usually, just gotta change a couple connections around



ok... again, sorry, thread hijack mode off yet again

i do hope the OP isn't too frustrated by our banter.

how's the wah coming?
if it gets too bad, i can send ya a board for the cost of shipping, i have several spare crybaby boards complete here.

to get back on topic,  look on geofex.com for rg's article on wahs.. will pretty much tell ya everything about them.

and tho they may look different, most of them are almost identical!!

check out aron's handy dandy life saver:



i used this to completely take a bespeco weeper pos (same circuit as the proel, pyle, vox 847 and many others pretty much) and make it freekin SICK. well worth checking out!!

but as far as the initial buffer issue, personallly, i'd just find the particular revision of your board, look it up on stinkfoot and if ya wanna keep the buffer put it back stock.

or say screw the buffer, put your input to  the actual wah circuit. you can put a 50k linear pot in series with the input if you want, the series resistance will act like a "passive" buffer and you can adjust the response of the way somewhat with it.

again, sorry for the hijacks, hope this tidbit of info ultimately helps ya get it sorted out!

[GibsonGM]

Y 'know, I'm getting tired of my old setup, and I may take you up on the B/T cut mod!  I did the mod to it where turning down ONE vol doesn't cut the signal out as it would with standard wiring.  What I do is play on the middle "honk" position all the time (mostly)...and I zip my neck pup up or down to add/remove bass and honk!   And have a coil cut on the bridge pup...and bright caps/resistor on the volumes.  Seems to work, I can go from "Bring it on Home"'s hard section to Slash leads fast...and for the real 'cream', just bang onto the neck pup.     But it might be nice to change it up, it's been a decade that way, ha ha.

I'd be wondering if the dude who modded that wah may have turned the Darlington around, so when you see it, you think it's correct?  So you'd need to compare collector resistor to the actual part you're using...no clue if a Darlington will conduct if reversed...

[potul]

Cmon guys.... I've been out one day and you have turned my topic upside donw   
I love how discussions start at one point and end up in a complete different one.

Going back to my wah, today I got it fixed. The darlington was ok, I alredy tested the pinout before changing it. I guess the issue was the missing input cap. I measured the input DC and there was clearly an issue with the bias of the transistor.

I found a 10nF cap in my drawer of parts and I put it where it should be. The wah is back to life now. I suppose the original darlington was ok as well.

What will remain a mistery is why the hell the previous owner removed the cap and put a resistor instead.

I will now have to decide if I leave it as it is or I remove the buffer and mod it for true bypass. I have another older crybaby without buffer, so I will be able to compare easily which one I like the most

Thank you all for your help during troubleshooting.

Mat

[pinkjimiphoton]

hahahah, parks, you're killing me man!! i love the way your brain works.

mat, props on sorting it out!! i hate foolin with fets. sometimes they need an input cap, sometimes they need no input cap.

sometimes i'm an idiot and still thinking fets when it should be darlingtons.

i wonder if the old owner heard some asshole talking (ahem, hey, pink jimi!!!!) and tried to replace the input buffer with a 50k resistance?

ooopsies

rock on bros

[GibsonGM]

Great, Mat!  Your first big mystery, solved! I hope we were helpful, playing guessing games and all.   

The modder may have not even known what a cap is, and wanted to 'up the resistance' as a mod!  Who knows what the uninitiated might pull, ha ha!  So your bias was just not there, going up the wire into the 'resistor' of your pickups, ha ha.   Your gain.

Don't feel bad Jimi, I didn't pick up on the input impedance thing, that a Darlington will jack that up, a normal BJT stage wouldn't be nearly as high...altho I thought as a buffer it would be higher than the measley input Z offered by a gain stage (?) there is always a lot more to learn!