Battery matters - Fuzz Face

[Branimir]

Hm...

I came upon this article on analogman's website:

http://www.analogman.com/fuzzface.htm

...as the best sound is obtained by using an old style non-alkaline battery. I get these two for a dollar at the DOLLAR STORES. I like the Maxell or Panasonics. An Alkaline battery will sound a bit dull in a germanium fuzzface, it will lose a lot of character (you can hear the difference in a sound sample above). It's not just the voltage that makes batteries and power supplies sound different. It's the resistance, inductance, and capacitance in the battery, which is part of the circuit in a fuzzface.

What the  ?

Besides ge transistor mojo, there's now battery mojo too hehe! And finally when I thought I busted all the issues with my fuzz face, now I'm wondering which battery did I put it! 

Any other clues to track down? How do rechargeable batteries cope with FF? Is this thing with (non)alkalines true? I checked out that sample the article was reffering to, and really, I can hear the difference... Hm, battery? Dunno, I say my fuzz face has a different sound for all the days in the week... Haven't really found out if my friday sounds better then the monday, and I haven't even mentioned if it's wintertime or summer...

What's your day of the week favorite with your fuzz face?

Now I'm seriously thinking about building an axis face silicon...

[axg20202]

Ha! Well, if he's got time to worry about this battery vs that battery he has a) got too much time on his hands; b) doesn't spend enought time actually playing his guitar and c) needs to get out more. I run my FF-type pedals using a regulated PSU and they sound great to me. I'd rather play to be honest, and leave these kind of worries to the kind of people that bleat on about oxygen-free cable, HIFI power supply conditioners, this type of cap vs that, and all that other (mostly) mojo crap...

If there's a noticeable difference in sound - fine. The question is do you care and, if you do, how much is it really worth worrying about? It's up to you. Battery types? Try them for yourself and see - easy enough to do.

"Part of the circuit"? This is misleading, but yes since it is the power source, of course its part of the circuit. Part of 'the' sound though? Hmm. There was so much variability in Fuzz Faces when they were made that who can say what should be considered part of the circuit and what is the 'true' sound of one. They all have the potential to sound slightly different. As ever, go with what you think sounds best and to hell with what people say you should care about. They're your ears.

[the_random_hero]

It's all to do with the built in resistance of the battery, if anything at all. An easier way of doing it would be to build a LM317-based power supply with variable sag and series resistance.

[RedHouse]

Yep just toss a (from 680 Ohm to 1k) resistor in series with your regulated power supply, nobody will be able to pick it out in a blind listening test.

[StickMan]

But AnalogMan also sells his Fuzz Faces for well over $200.  So he must know what he's doing.   

[petemoore]

  With the battery being a resistor in the FF circuit, 'adjusting' this resistor is a viable mod for the FF.
  A 'less spunky' battery can also have influence on circuit functions, a lower supply V seems to me to be where it's effects are most noticable.
 

[mac]

I never worried about this fact.
I power all my pedals with a 6 AA or AAA alkaline Energizer. Years of heavy use and still as fresh as new.

mac

[slideman82]

What about 3V button mercury batteries? Like the ones inside a CPU? In some boxes, you have plenty of room... you could use 9 in blocks of 3 in serires, and then all blocks in parallel... just a silly idea, and finally cause too much contamination!

What about a mini solar panel beside the FF box?

[frokost]

You'd better be careful with the smoke machine, then  .

[Dragonfly]

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/d/3619-2/adjustavolt.gif

simple circuit for adjustable voltage without restricting the current

[MetalGod]

there IS a difference though - you can clearly hear it in the soundclip on the AnalogMan website.

[Mark Hammer]

The tonal consequences of different batteries has been debated here at great length for a decade or more.  There IS reality and validity to it.  What remains to be determined is the extent to which the dynamic properties of batteries can be replicated by circuits.

What is not typically differentiated in such discussions is the degree to which we are talking about battery-related tonal qualities that are:
a) a result of a specific fixed supply voltage (e.g., 8vdc as opposed to 9vdc),
b) battery-related tonal qualities emerging from a current limitation (i.e., maximum current obtainable from the battery), or
c) battery-related tonal qualities emerging from a dynamic/changing capacity from the battery. 

If any of you have had a "transistor radio" (not a small headphone-based thing, but one of the older types with all discrete circuitry and a 3-5" speaker in a plastic box chassis, powered by a quartet or more of carbon-zinc penlight or C cells), then you will likely be familiar with that point where the batteries are on their last legs and turning up the volume past a certain point impacts on the sound quality.  I suspect that muchof the magical qualities that some have described are a product of a similar type of phenomenon whereby a battery in a high gain circuit imparts a certain tonal quality as a result of its inability to supply current-on-demand for more than a certain period of time.  What people hear and like is the battery going "I think I can do this....unggghh....nope, I can't".  This is entirely different than a robust healthy power supply set a volt or more less than usual.  Now that doesn't mean you CAN'T get something interesting by using any of the commercial or DIY supplies that permit you to vary the voltage and/or current in some manner, but my gut tells me the craze over carbon-zinc batteries is not about stable characteristics of a supply.

At a certain point in their lifespan, there are differences between carbon-zinc and other battery types in their ability to deliver current-on-demand.  Part of this is a function of the actual chemical composition of the battery, but part is a function of how they are made.  Take one apart and you'll see that alkaine 9vs are generally made of 6 sub-AAA size "battery-ettes", with adjoining tabs spot-welded.  In contrast, carbon-zinc batteries tend to be made of a half-dozen "slugs" that look like pencil lead, for want of a better descriptor.  Ignoring any internal resistance built up inside the slug for the moment, understand that the ability of any battery to deliver instantaneous current is partly a function of the surface area.  Carbon-zincs (at least in 9v form) have bigger surface area than the 6-cells-in-a-line alkaline.  My sense is that this makes them able to deliver their maximum possible current for a brief instant before they give up.  It's like they are trying harder than they should.  ("Here, let me carry that for you.....ohmygod....my heart", he says clutching his chest and falling to the floor).

I have long argued that while some of the properties of a battery in this state can be simulated, what we hear is a product of the interaction between the moment-to-moment current requirements of a high-gain circuit, and the moment-to-moment current-delivery capability of the battery.  Like the transistor radio that sounds perfectly fine as long as the volume is set low enough, the fuzz will behave "normally" as long as you don't set the gain high and pick a note hard.  If you transgress against those rules, what you hear is a dynamic change in the circuit's performance as the battery gives up after trying momentarily....and it is delicious.  If there is a way in which dying-battery simulators can provide those tyopes of current-delivery-dependant-on-signal-dynamics qualities, then that would be wonderful.  I have a sense they do not fully capture it, though.  At least not in any simple circuit suitable for DIY.  Admittedly, I have not heard or played with any of the commercial devices that purport to provide this, so I can't offer an opinion.

You will note that much, if not ALL, of the battery mojo has been centered around the Fuzz Face.  I have yet to hear people talk about how a dying carbon-zinc battery improves the performance of just about anything else.  Again, because there are no diodes involved in this circuit (and see the Technology of the Fuzz Face article at geofex), my sense is that the Fuzz Face, and similar 2 and 3-transistor circuits (Tonebender, yadda, yadda, yadda) are particularly susceptible to this giving up aspect of carbon-zinc batteries.  I would not, for one minute expect any sort of performance enhancement  were I to stick the same battery in anything that relied on diodes (TS, BMP, etc).

[Fretts]

You mention moment-to-moment response.  It could also be called hysteresis or recovery time.  This guy at Creation Audio Labs dug way into the topic and independently found the same thing.
This article is about the power brick he designed that is sold by Pedaltrain, but the battery research info is in there:
http://www.creationaudiolabs.com/single-post/2017/07/10/Powertrain1250-Pedal-Power-in-a-Class-all-its-Own

[pinkjimiphoton]

AM is right.

fuzzfaces sound best with almost dead carbon zinc batteries. discovered the same 40 years ago in my first big muff pi.

alkaline batteries discharge completely differently. carbon zinc sags.

when i was working for black cat fx, tom had boxes of cheap carbon zinc batteries he got from china. best sounding batteries to put in a FUZZ. other tings? not so much. but fuzzes are different.

a dead battery tends to "sag" more like tubes. its not mojo, its reality.

to mis-quote paul mccartney, "things were more @#$%-upable back then".