How to go from breadboard to schematic to pcb?

[Peasey23]

Simple question, likely complex answer BUT;

If I were to make a circuit on a breadboard and I wanted to get that printed to pcb, how would I go about that?

I'm new to this side of things as I've mainly dealt with modding and building pedal kits thus far, but it'd be really helpful to me and I'm certain mainy, many others if someone could perhaps break this down into an understandable sequence here.

My limited knowledge would lead me to think that, simplistically, it would be;

Breadboard a circuit
Draw that up as a schematic when complete
Have it printed/etch it
Build it!

It would be AWESOME to fill in the blanks of HOW to get it from start to end. Apologies if this is elsewhere, but I've not yet found anything specifically that helps shed light on this darkened room in my head on this one.

[R.G.]

It is a common problem, and it's good to see you thinking through it logically.

I would say that the first two items are reversed, and are done several times, repeatedly. For me, I think of the function I want, then in my head go over several ways to do it. Then I pick a method, and draw a schematic, however incomplete it is.

From the schematic, I can see that the circuit might need more or different parts, or another approach entirely. When I have a clear idea of what I would like to do, I will start either simulating the circuit or working with it on a breadboard and refining the ideas.

For me, simply starting on a breadboard is too open ended, and too error prone. I need the mental discipline of thinking through (1) idea (2) block diagrams/ functions (3) schematic and repeat through 2 and 3 until I'm happy with the schematic. Then I do (4) breadboard and prove out the ideas, and only then do I lay out the circuits for PCB or other prototyping boards and proceed to a final design.

To me, going directly to a breadboard is too open ended. It seems to me to be like throwing parts in a bag and shaking them, and hoping something good happens.

[Peasey23]

I see, this is interesting to me as for me reading schematics is harder to get my head around than seeing something physically there - that helps me to understand how the schematic works a bit better.

I've quite some way to go on this front, so it's helpful hearing others processes and I'm just looking for simplistic explanations on things so I can build a better overall understanding at this point!

My main objective really is to try and understand how to make something on a breadboard and then how I could translate that to pcb in order to print one and build my first pedal outright.

How do you make a layout? Do you use design software?

Thanks for your reply, R.G - I've much to learn!

[PRR]

You "can" simply draw-out the breadboard, lot of 5-strips, on PCB, and stuff it.

It may not be the most compact or elegant. It does save much thinking.

Radio Shack used to sell a PCB which was "proto-board" layout. It may be a common thing in DIY stores.

[smallbearelec]

My main objective really is to try and understand how to make something on a breadboard...

You may want to start by finding a vetted schematic and parts list for a build that you want to try. If it's a common design, you can find information about How it works by searching past threads in this Forum. Set it up on breadboard, get it working, then maybe think about a board layout.

How do you make a layout? Do you use design software?

Answer to the second question first: Many people (I'm one) make use of DIY Layout Creator. Free program, downloadable from http://diy-fever.com/software/diylc/ and absolutely fabulous. There's a learning curve to the program, but it is well-worth the effort.

As for the process of getting from schem to layout, it's complicated enough that R. G. wrote a book about it:
http://www.smallbear-electronics.mybigcommerce.com/pcb-layout-for-musical-effects/

Some of the information can be found in other sources, but it's scattered and time-consuming to dig up. The book is thorough, systematic and focused on designs for pedals.

Welcome to the Forum, and enjoy your build(s).

[Peasey23]

Thanks so much for all this, Smallbearelec!

All that makes a lot more sense to me now and once I'm paid tomorrow I'm planning on stockin up on more parts for the breadboard and working on a simple boost circuit and then probably just copying a Rat schematic to start with, so I can further understand things.

I've also downloaded DIY Layout Creator to start getting my head around that, too. The book might be a solid purchase, also!

[vigilante397]

You already have the answers of some of the most qualified forum members, but I figure I'll jump in and agree with everyone

For simple designs I start with a schematic first, for more complex designs I'll start with a block diagram, and that will be turned into a schematic. But I always get a schematic before going to the breadboard. So my process is generally:

• block diagram
• schematic
• breadboard
• adjust schematic to match breadboard if changes were made
• do rough circuit layout for verification
• etch/mill PCB myself and test
• adjust PCB layout as necessary
• order PCBs from fabrication house

It would seem excessive for some projects, and again for simple things I'll likely skip steps. The main reason behind multiple layouts is that I will often make a single-sided or simple double-sided PCB at home to verify my layout, then I will adjust the layout for fabrication because professionally fabbed PCBs can do a lot of things (smaller traces, vias under components, plated through-hole pads, etc) than I can at home, so you have to tailor your layout to where it's going to be made.

And like all things in life, in every step of the process practice makes better. You may not get professional results your first few times, but as you stick with it and learn more about what to do and what not to do you'll get it all figured out

[iainpunk]

Before taking my advice, be warned: i'm a mess

But in general, i do get stuff working, so gere goes my process:

1) mental preparation
I think about a general idea of what I want the pedal to do.
2) schematic mess
I draw out about 20 or so, potential schematic parts. Never the whole schematic, but always single stages.
3) breadboard mess
I put the most useful and interesting-looking schematics on my bread board. I test them individually. I also play with the schematics and try to make them more unique. Sometimes is change schematics up quite aggressively to make them sound more radically different.
4) stage order mess
I put the stages in various orders on my breadboard, which creates an even worse mess. Experimentation is key in this stage.
5) un-mess the board a bit
I pull out every stage i probably won't use in the end. Most of the time, i am left with between 2 and 6 stages.
6) un-mess the stage order
I move the stages over to the desired order from left to right, or sometimes from right to left.
7) un-mess the schematic
I draw out the full schematic for the first time, with all the final values in place.
8)repeat the drawing of the schematic
I draw the schematic out once from the breadboard and the loose schematic parts, and then try to draw the schematic 'straight from the top of my dome' amd repeat it often enough that i know it by heart.
9) build it on perfboard
I buid the schematic on perfboard, making up the layout on the go. This usually results in a beautiful mess of components. Through some kind of magic, most of the times, i get the thing to work after going back and trouble shooting for about half an hour.
10) design a pcb
I just copy the perfboard layout to a utilboard layout, keeping the shape and route of the perf traces.
11) etch & drill
My school has an etching lab, i etch and drill there

Thats my messy process. im mainly focussed on simple but unique/odd modulation and distortion (/overdrive/fuzz) designs. I sometimes get carried away by making things more unique than useful. I have a few (read: about 25) perfboard prototypes laying in a pile. They were functional, but not very useful effects. Like a Grindcore booster/Disenhancer, and its mk2, mk3 and mk4, which are wave folders and boost pedals in one, specially designed to drive a distortion or fuzz into a very nasty, way to high gain, overly compressed noisy, ugly, mangled mess. Ill probably won't ever use it, except when i finally find people to start a Grindcore band with.

TL;DR i work in a messy way and make prototypes that won't ever be useful except for Grindcore.

Have good luck,
Greetings, Using

[MJ_Sound_Cubed]

Complex but a pleasant lerning curve.

Lots of good ideas in this thread.

[mimmotronics]

Answers on this thread are gold, but I'll be the miner in the coal mine and throw in my two cents to describe my current process.

Step 1: Conception and Initial Design

Get your idea down as a concept first. It seems like you will be experimenting with existing circuits first, so this step may not be important to you at this moment, but it will play a role down the line. If you don't start with a clear idea of what you want to accomplish there is little chance of it working it out on the breadboard.

I usually write out, on paper, the type of effect I'm going for. I then try to separate that out into conceptual blocks (i.e. a "Gain" block, a "Delay" block, etc.). After that, I look up different approaches on how to achieve each block. In doing so, I start to get a grasp on how to build the initial circuit design. This is done block-by-block until, eventually, I have an initial circuit design on paper, ready to start implementing on the breadboard.

Step 2: Breadboard the Initial Design

With the initial circuit design on paper, I start to implement the different circuit blocks, independently, one at a time. It's important to note that I that test each and every circuit block, independent of each other, so I know each part is working correctly. If something doesn't work properly it's either a mistake in breadboarding (90% of the time) or an incorrect schematic (10% of the time). Either way, problems with the initial design are addressed in this step.

Step 3: Design Review

At this point, I will review the (working) initial design and add, change or remove features. The changes made here usually come from test-driving the pedal or from additional research on the effect I'm going for. Be warned, I've spent anywhere from a couple days to few months in this step alone. This is IMO the most experimental part of the process and definitely a lot of fun to be in.

Step 4: Working Prototype

Once the Design Review is finished, it's time to build a working prototype. The cheapest way, as far as I know, is to build the initial design on a vero board and house that into enclosure.

Step 5: PCB

For making PCBs, there is software I use that helps me out lay out the boards. Many people like to use Eagle, my personal choice is KiCAD. I chose KiCAD since there are many very useful videos floating around on YouTube (mainly by Contextual Electronics) that explain how to use it and the process of laying out the PCB and sending the design files to get fabricated into a working PCB.

That being said, the other route you could take is to etch your own circuit boards, which it seems like you are trying to accomplish here. There are many videos on YouTube, you can even search this forum, for videos on how to develop your own PCB boards at home.

Step 6: Assemble & Test Drive

After getting the boards in the mail, they're assembled, enclosed, then ready to test drive!


That's basically my process...any questions feel free to reply.