wtf did i do, and wtf would ya call it?

[mac]

IMHO, not connecting the base changes things a lot.  But an even bigger difference is the 2x NPN vs NPN+PNP.

Novo's circuit has a trimmer to set the distortion DC sweet spot:
Vc - Vb -> 0, Ib(pnp) -> 0
This is exactly what happens in a well tuned Bazz Fuss.

I have to see my notes, I remember to have breadboarded a single NPN with a diode or zener from C to E, maybe some bias pot.

In Arsenio Novo's design or Bazz Fuss, the diode restricts the motion of the collector to one diode drop above the base.
In Jimi's wtf, IF the transistor at the right is acting like a diode, the collector and the base of the one at the left must be equal because it is on and the base to emitter voltage is a diode drop.
Wtf, just guessing.

mac

[Rob Strand]

Novo's circuit has a trimmer to set the distortion DC sweet spot:
Vc - Vb -> 0, Ib(pnp) -> 0
This is exactly what happens in a well tuned Bazz Fuss.

I have to see my notes, I remember to have breadboarded a single NPN with a diode or zener from C to E, maybe some bias pot.

In Arsenio Novo's design or Bazz Fuss, the diode restricts the motion of the collector to one diode drop above the base.

I can see that could work like you say.

With the base unconnected it changes things a lot.  A *silicon* transistor with the base open, look like two back to back diodes so it doesn't have any obvious function.

   E  ---|<--- B  --->|--- C

If the BE voltage increases to 8 to 10V then you might break-down the BE junction, that will do something.

If the transistor is high-leakage like a GE then it *will * pass current from C to E, that will also do something.

I guess my beef with all the "similar" circuits in the thread is they don't cover the open base case.

[pinkjimiphoton]

its gotta be leakage. or what i thought is a transistor, is, in fact, two diodes.

lotta wtf to go around lately. man!

i gotta sit down and hook it up again and measure voltages, you guys are way above my humble paygrade.

monkey with a breadboard. making shit fuzzy is easy. the rest... not so much.
but making a GOOD fuzz is a challenge.

cuz they all are good for different things

anyways, i'm thinking leakage thru the other transistor.

maybe i'll do it "live" on youtube

[anotherjim]

Might be possible to work with silicon IF the floater is low hfe in the first place -  like a medium power type such as 2N3053  and also used in reverse beta. Because it won't leak on like a Ge, it won't actually work floating base, but would need a resistor b-c, maybe large like 100k.
I don't know if it actually will work, but it would be nice if it did since we don't have much use for those TO-39 types these days and there's bags of them laying around.

[DaveLT]

Might be possible to work with silicon IF the floater is low hfe in the first place -  like a medium power type such as 2N3053  and also used in reverse beta. Because it won't leak on like a Ge, it won't actually work floating base, but would need a resistor b-c, maybe large like 100k.
I don't know if it actually will work, but it would be nice if it did since we don't have much use for those TO-39 types these days and there's bags of them laying around.

2N3053 is actually pretty pricey compared to your average transistor! Perhaps use BD139s as they are pretty low gain  Or TIP41... I can get 5 of them for like 60 cents

[mac]

WTF, I better breadboard this thing

Right now I have a BC550C, input and output caps 100n, 10k collector resistor, 1k emitter resistor with 22uf bypass cap.
Bias -> 1M resistor from base to lug 2 of a 50kB pot, lug 3 to vcc, lug 1 to gnd.

- If I place a npn silicon transistor with open base it does nothing, as expected.
Germs are a different story. Some 2N1114 and 2N388 work, but really leaky AC187 can't be biased except by adding a leakage shunt resistor from base to gnd, say 100k or so.
- Silicons can be forced to work too with a similar bias circuit, a 1M and 50kb pot to feed the base, no guitar signal. I am using a MPSA42 and another BC550C.
- If I remove the second Si or Ge, and I put a 47k to 10k resistor from C to E I get almost the same result (small SS amp, late night )
So maybe the second transistor is just a resistor as said before.
- Diodes from C to E are a something different, more synth like sounds.

mac

[Ben N]

What you first posted wasn't so different from:
But this new thing, that's ... something ... else.

[Rob Strand]

WTF, I better breadboard this thing

You get the gold star!

[pinkjimiphoton]

WTF, I better breadboard this thing

Right now I have a BC550C, input and output caps 100n, 10k collector resistor, 1k emitter resistor with 22uf bypass cap.
Bias -> 1M resistor from base to lug 2 of a 50kB pot, lug 3 to vcc, lug 1 to gnd.

- If I place a npn silicon transistor with open base it does nothing, as expected.
Germs are a different story. Some 2N1114 and 2N388 work, but really leaky AC187 can't be biased except by adding a leakage shunt resistor from base to gnd, say 100k or so.
- Silicons can be forced to work too with a similar bias circuit, a 1M and 50kb pot to feed the base, no guitar signal. I am using a MPSA42 and another BC550C.
- If I remove the second Si or Ge, and I put a 47k to 10k resistor from C to E I get almost the same result (small SS amp, late night )
So maybe the second transistor is just a resistor as said before.
- Diodes from C to E are a something different, more synth like sounds.

mac

try the leaky ge reverse beta and watch what happens. it SHOULD make the other transistor's gain go way up

definitely louder and fuzzier with the second transistor backwards. again, not all will work. but when it does... its like... holy shit.

g will be back to work this week, so i should be able to video some experiments and the original circuit in question so you guys can see and hear.. and i'll do voltage measurements live so you guys that are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyy smarter than me can hopefully figure it out!