Do you need an "Amp Sim" for ampless gigging?

[Killthepopular]

Obviously, you need some sort of cabinet simulation. I'm building a condor cab sim for open mic nights and small gigs. Turn up, plug it into the PA. Job done. I was going to use it with some dirt pedals, DS1, SD1, Fuzz face etc.

Will it sound Ampey enough though? Will it sound like a "proper" electric guitar sound? I am tempted to build an amp sim to go with it, ROG's Eighteen maybe.

What do you guys reckon? Do I need a Cab sim AND and amp sim to get a good direct sound, or is an amp sim just a slightly different sounding dirt box and not really necessary for a good direct guitar sound?

I guess what I'm asking is, is there any reason why a pedal that emulates an existing amp (e.g. vox 7 series) will give me a better overall sound on its own (with a cab sim) than just using any other cool dist/OD on its own (with cab sim)?

[GibsonGM]

I've found that it depends on what pedal you're using.   There are several factors...output level, how 'finished' the tone coming from them is (most dirt pedals sound extremely fizzy Direct, to me, due to the high frequency content that comes w/the territory).   Some sound great as a preamp all on their own...for direct recording, then I'll just throw a cab sim on it.   Others are a little too weird-sounding, and benefit from a (usually clean) amp sim, for tone-shaping.     

A cab sim with pretty functional tone-shaping controls will probably take care of your needs, but you'll have to just try it out to know!  The real frills you're getting from 'simulating amps' are the tone controls/eq, gain stages, and reverb, IMO; nothing magical there.    That's something you can DIY pretty easily if you don't want the sophistication of digital modeling.   EQ between dirt pedal and cab sim, for one.

[bool]

If you need something quick, I would just look around for a used sansamp BDDI. Plug into a mixboard, power it with a phantom and off you go. You can also dial in some additional grit with it, but use your main pedals for the most of the dist.

[Killthepopular]

So it sounds like the eq on an amp is the main thing I'd be missing, for which I could just use an EQ pedal. I was tempted to build a lemon drop (those revolver/white tones kick arse) so I could have a proper "amp pedal", but I guess that there's nothing Inherently more amp-like about that pedal than there is about my other dirt pedals.
I guess another element is stacking. If I wanted a set up that was like a proper amp I would probably want a pedal that stacks well so I could hit it with an over drive or something.

@bool: I don't need anything urgently. I already have a joyo California sound and a behringer GDI21 and some multifx pedals with cab and amp sim functions. I'm just looking at building a new cab and amp sim because my current options are either too cheap/noisy or too digital for my liking.

[GibsonGM]

I took a look at the Lemon Drop...seems ok, a workable OD with some functionality, but I'd think you could do even better with your favorite dirt box and an eq pedal!     

Heck, if you want to be able to hit it with a boost, I'd look into a tube-based pedal such as a Valvecaster running on 18V.  That will give you good headroom that you can push with your favorite boost (could be built in 1 enclosure!) >> EQ  >> PA
Sort of depends what you want to do with it (what genres you will be playing)

I record direct all the time with a "GTFO" tube preamp, with a software cab sim added.  Since these boxes we make ARE all preamps, that's really enough to get some good tones.  I've sound the voicing of the cab sim (impulses) does the real heavy lifting...which is EQ....DeadAstronaut Rob recently put out his own cab sim ckt that I thought sounded really good, and is versatile, you might look that one up (CAB SIMple)!   There are other versions out there too, the one designed by VAL at thread's end looks promising too.

Here is the thread, worth playing around w/this one, IMO:  https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=106185.msg1145670#msg1145670

[Killthepopular]

Well, I've already pretty much built my condor and modded the sound to my tastes. I knew about the dead astronaut cab sim. I liked the flexibility and the XLR out but I still went with the condor because it still sounded better to my ears. I'll make my GE7 one of my four pedalboard pedals if I feel I desperately need EQ control. That would make my board: dirt pedal, GE7, Condor, Behringer analogue delay.

The valve caster looks interesting. If I wanted to make something just for stacking though I'd probably make an OCD which seems to be THE classic stacking pedal and is also a pedal I like a lot.
OTOH that lemon drop is still pretty tempting...
Anyway, it sounds like I don't really NEED an amp sim as well as a cab sim so I guess I'll just make do with the dirt pedals I have. Maybe some day the building bug will bite and I'll find myself ordering all the parts for a lemon drop or OCD...