What style of bass overdrive or distortion circuit would make this tone?

[bushidov]

Hi There,

I am trying to figure out what circuit of distortion or overdrive is making this tone on the intro of this song. I have heard other artists use this, and am pretty sure its just plugins and such, but would like to know if it could be done in analog fashion.

It sounds like a clean signal mixed with a fuzzy, gravely, bass distortion, but its a sound I can't quite get with my bass overdrive or bass big muff pi, so I wasn't sure what the secret sauce, analog-wise, would be.

Any ideas?

[iainpunk]

it sounds like ampeg

cheers, Iain

[edvard]

I'm surprised you couldn't get it with your Bass Big Muff Pi.  It definitely sounds like a Muff sort of smooth-ish fuzz with a bit of the straight sound mixed in, like a fuzz with "blend" or "wet/dry" controls.  Several Bass fuzzes I could find samples of have that weird "veeeooowww" sound as they decay, which is typical of many transistor fuzzes in general, but isn't in the song you linked.

I looked up an interview with the bass player.  Pretty minimal, but got specs at the end:

I keep it simple but solid. Only deviate when needed. I play five-string bass in Paradise Lost because the lows are just what's needed for our gothic doom sound. My first bass was an old black Westone four-string I bought on finance. I think I'm still paying it off 30 years later! My favourite bass ever to date is either a Musicman Stingray or a Fender Jazz. Basically anything Fender designed. My bass heroes are Steve Harris, Geezer Butler, Cliff Burton. All are big influences on my playing. If I could get the bass tone of any album ever released, I would choose Black Sabbath's Heaven And Hell. Martin Birch, the producer, was a master at getting a good bass sound. There are only 12 notes on a bass so that's one in 12 chances of getting it right. Those are pretty good odds in my book. Our new album The Plague Within is out now, and we have a full European tour in the autumn.
www.paradiselost.co.uk
Basses: Musicman Stingray
Effects: Boss Bass Overdrive, Sansamp Bass DI
Amps: Ampeg SVT Classic, Ampeg 8×10 cab

So there you go; Boss Bass Overdrive into an Ampeg SVT, or into a SansAmp Bass DI to go direct.

[bushidov]

I am still not sure if that's the correct sound. I am not exactly sure how to describe the particular bass "tone" I am talking about. It almost sounds like a low frequency "fizz", which doesn't make much sense when I type it, as fizz typically is a high frequency thing. Another example is in Fear Factory's Descent, like here at the 1:32 mark (although this bass tone is all over this track, its isolated here):

How do I get that distortion? What kind of circuit does that?

[FiveseveN]

How do I get that distortion? What kind of circuit does that?

All distortions do that, it's just a matter of how the signal gets filtered afterwards. In the Fear Factory example it sounds like the high end comes either from a tweeter or a 10" captured close to the center. Maybe you're trying to reproduce it on a 1x15" sans tweeter? What's your setup?

[bushidov]

What's your setup?

No "real" setup as of yet. I am more a guitarist than a bassist. I have a Fender Champ clone going into Harley Benton 2x12 with Celestion Vintage 30s. I also have build quite a few pedals, which is why I was trying to get that sound more from the pedal or a preamp than the mic and speaker.

Part of my problem is I don't know what to search for, as I lack the English words to describe that "sound" other than by siting examples. Another one is the bass on Fear Factory's Soul Wound:

So, the "gravel" that I am hearing is just any old bass distortion, but specifically a mic grabbing the tweeter's high-end frequencies and then mixing it at the daw with the rest of the bass sound?

[anotherjim]

Unless your 2x12 is ported for bass, you'll miss the low bass extension that's important in that sound. Ampeg 8x10 has no tweeter. It may be done with a close mic on one speaker and a mic further back to capture the full bass end.

[bushidov]

Yeah, Jim, I get that. It's not the low-end I'm trying to get. Well, that's not true, I do want that low end, too, but I know how to get that. What I am trying to get is that "scrape on concrete distortion" sound that I cannot seem to get with a Bass Big Muff with the blend, or a bass overdrive pedal. It sounds like there are "3" layers in that sound. 1 is a clean bass DI. 1 is a distortion like a Big Muff or a Darkglass B7K. The 3rd part is the part I don't know what is doing that. It almost sounds like white noise.

[willienillie]

Wristwatch.  Crisco.

[edvard]

I am still not sure if that's the correct sound. I am not exactly sure how to describe the particular bass "tone" I am talking about. It almost sounds like a low frequency "fizz", which doesn't make much sense when I type it, as fizz typically is a high frequency thing. Another example is in Fear Factory's Descent, like here at the 1:32 mark (although this bass tone is all over this track, its isolated here):
...
How do I get that distortion? What kind of circuit does that?

Pretty much any Overdrive/Distortion (not Fuzz) that's meant for Bass, but split into Clean and Dirty then blend back at the mixing desk.  It's an old trick, started by people like Chris Squire who took the stereo-split output of a Rickenbacker 4001, ran one end to an Ampeg SVT, the other to a Marshall JMP.  That's why the ODB-3 has a "Balance" knob; so that clean foundational bass can come through keeping the low end nailed down, while the distortion piles the harmonic dirt on top without needing a mixer to blend the two.  Start there and aim through D. D. Verni's "Clank" tone and Blacky's "Blower Bass" circa 1988-95 or so, and you end up here. 
Here's a schematic for the ODB-3, maybe glean some ideas from there:
ODB-3: https://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=58045.0

Speaking of Blacky's "Blower Bass", some boutique pedal folks have produced pedals to emulate his sound, check them out.
BlowerBox: https://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2014/07/idiotbox-blowerbox.html

The "white noise" thing I think I know what you're talking about.  It's almost like a "raggedness" to the sound; like a "grind" that is slipping the gears.  CMOS distortion designs are good for that, maybe try a Tube Sound Fuzz circuit (Mark Hammer's designs I think are better than the original), but incorporate a clean blend.

Willie also has a point; much of it could simply be a good producer extracting decent tones out of whatever's flooding out of that Bass amplificator.  Do what you can to get close, and have fun with whatever you come up with.