2-1 pedal problem

[sekim]

Splitting these two particular circuits is...particularly problematic. Because they both have awfully low input impedance. Electrosmash gives 12k for the RM and 5.2 to 8.4k for the FF.

Ouch, but true.

Op should probably try separating the inputs temporarily but leaving the outputs coupled, and then audition through each input. If that passes muster, then concoct a plan to isolate the inputs from each other enough to function without totally destroying the characteristics the low impedance has on tone.

[rangermaster]

I wired a 10k resistor on each input wire. This helps and the noise is gone.

However, when the fuzz pot is at max i get some squeeling high noise and on both circuits i'm missing some gain. They do their job good but not enough. Can this be solved and still keep the 10k resistors in place ?

[GGBB]

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AiG09dtIpGuchql8YecaaHzcCrc57A

Here is a audio sample

First the fuzz then the rangemaster..

How are you "switching" between the fuzz and the rangemaster? Your layout diagram doesn't really show a clear way to do that.

[rangermaster]

One 3pdt switch. Both circuit on the same in and output.

The idea was to blend the 2 together

[GGBB]

One 3pdt switch. Both circuit on the same in and output.

The idea was to blend the 2 together

So the DPDT in your diagram is not the switch you are using?

[GibsonGM]

Seems that maybe you need a pot or something, or at least some fixed resistors between the 2 effects' outputs, no?  I don't think they like to short together, if that's what you're actually doing (trying to blend them with their volumes??) 

[rangermaster]

One 3pdt switch. Both circuit on the same in and output.

The idea was to blend the 2 together

So the DPDT in your diagram is not the switch you are using?

The wiring is the same. Just a different switch.

[rangermaster]

Seems that maybe you need a pot or something, or at least some fixed resistors between the 2 effects' outputs, no?  I don't think they like to short together, if that's what you're actually doing (trying to blend them with their volumes??)

Ok can you explain what you mean with the resistors? Or draw me something

[GGBB]

One 3pdt switch. Both circuit on the same in and output.

The idea was to blend the 2 together

So the DPDT in your diagram is not the switch you are using?

The wiring is the same. Just a different switch.

So then back to the fact that you actually have no way of truly separating the two circuits from one another - the fuzz volume control acts as master volume and the rangemaster boost control should do the same or similar. You really need to isolate the circuit outputs.

[iainpunk]

the two circuits not having the same phase output doesn't help either. remember the fuzz face has no phase inversion, but the rangemaster does, so that might add to the raspy, broken nature of the sound.

the Gretch ControFuzz is a good example of a pedal that does this on purpose.

cheers

[rangermaster]

I guess i should build in a toggle switch so there's the option too choose between the rangemaster and fuzz circuit..... unfortunately

I was hoping i could use both at the same time with one 3pdt switch

[idy]

Earlier I mentioned the abysmal input impedance of each circuit and the folly of putting them in parallel, just sticking the input wires together.

The output impedences are just as iffy, what with those two pots at the end, either one will short out the sound of the whole thing when turned down. Passive mixer would be the minimal necessary...

[rangermaster]

What if i put the 2 circuits in series? rangemaster -> fuzz face

So the output of the rangemaster goes in to the fuzz face's input and then the FF's output to the switch. Should this work? And what about the controls ?

[rangermaster]

Solved.

Series worked.

[GibsonGM]

It works if you want to boost the FF, yes.  If you want them separate but 'mix-able', you might try using resistors on the output to ensure you're not shorting the outputs together, which generally is bad.   And the phase issues would have to be corrected as Iain said - that's another transistor or opamp.

Here's a quick read about this, and you can find more on the net, but if you did it you'd have to find the right resistors for your application (1k? 680R?)  "Input' in their case would be your circuit outputs.

https://www.epanorama.net/circuits/linesum.html

[rangermaster]

Thanks for all your help

For now this is fine. Maybe a next build will benone that really blends the 2 like i wanted in first place. This oneis fine now. No more frustrations 

[GibsonGM]

Yes, for that you may want to find 2 very dis-similar kinds of distortion...a fuzz and LED clipper maybe...because you could find that they don't really sound all that different when blended!  Blending some clean with a dirt circuit is also popular.