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pickup simulator?

Started by km-r, February 13, 2007, 01:30:53 AM

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km-r

what can i use to make a single-coil sound like a growly humbucker?

any schematics?
Look at it this way- everyone rags on air guitar here because everyone can play guitar.  If we were on a lawn mower forum, air guitar would be okay and they would ridicule air mowing.

RaceDriver205

Try using a booster? I.e. AMZ Mosfet booster at tonepad.com.

blanik

changing it for a mini-bucker  ;D

i did that on both my teles with excellent results, a Seymour Duncan Hot-Rails tele in one and a DiMarzio Chopper-T in the other, the both sound very good...

R.

petemoore

#3
  Gnarf/
 It's easier to make an HB sound single-ey using a coil tap, or series/parallel wiring.
  The position of the pickup in relation to the bridge/nut makes some difference, as does the pickup 'width', a HB takes a 'wider' picture of the string, the single coil takes a 'thin slice' sampling of the string movement, the HB takes two SBS slices, about twice as wide.
 Perhaps something that raises 'output' voltage [HB's have more output], and something also that adds a bit of extra meat or warmth...
 The Crank
 Stratoblaster
 Sparkleboost [I have one of these]
 Numerous other boosters, boosters with grit, OD's, anything past 1 transistor or 2 'mild gain' transistors will probably start taking on a sound of it's own more, I'd try somehthing with a Jfet for starters.
 IIRC there is an article/schematic is a GP mag with a circuit presented as just that 'makes an SC sound more like HB' [or maybe the other way around], I couldn't read schematics at the time but would bet it's a booster type circuit.
 Your pickups have their sound, the farther you get away from that ['rules' can be bent a bit further sometimes, this isn't etched in plastic] the more 'it'll sound more like something other than pickup variation, Single coils moreso because there is less bass output and output in general than a HB...output level of course can easily be increased by a greater amount than pickup changes like this, using 1 transistor, or opamp, bass response can be 're-grown' somewhat with a gain stage [if little or none of it is rolled off with input or output caps], treble response can be reduced or eliminated, using LP Filters.
 This is the 'simple' answer, and preliminary, perhaps someone has suggestions how to increase 'fatness' in a SC to better mimic a HB output.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

Steben

#4
Start thinking about a booster that has its emphasis on lo-mid (200-500hz).

I used to make variations on tube screamers for strat-like people that liked a switch between normal (low-cut around 750Hz) and "fat" (low-cut around 400Hz). This sounded more like a HB position with the same single coil guitar.
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Rules apply only for those who are not allowed to break them

DDD

The simpliest way - add about 300 to 1500 pF capacitor in parallel with the single-coil pickup. Surely it won't be a close parody, but a bit closer to the HB pickup.
Too old to rock'n'roll, too young to die

Plectrum

#6
Quote from: petemoore on February 13, 2007, 01:58:21 AM
 Single coils moreso because there is less bass output...

I've actually found the opposite. I assumed because the resonant-peak is bigger and lower (f) and so the mids and low-mids are more accentuated in *relation* to bass.

Quote from: Steben on February 13, 2007, 02:52:24 AM
Start thinking about a booster that has its emphasis on lo-mid (200-500hz).

I think this is your best bet. For some reason, guitarists seem to be scared of parametric eq's, but they work pretty well in this scenario IMHO.
Use the guitar tone B/P to roll off a shade of the high-end too - or if you're building, maybe put one on the box.
FWIW the clapton booster is centered around 600Hz.

Mark Hammer

Craig Anderton had a circuit in Electronic Musician (I'd scan it but I can't find an XP driver for my scanner at the moment) for a pickup simulator.  It was essentially a sextet of selected bandpass filters, plus a highpass filter, fed to an op-amp mixer stage, via a set of dipswitches.  Pick filter X, Y, and Z, and you get closer to pickup P.  And that is the core idea: you get closer to a given voice, without necessarily replicating it.

Though far from instantly transforming a SC to HB, I like to use a small value tone-cap on my guitars, in the range of 3300-6800pf.  Thisd mimics the natural rolloff of HB pickups.  It certainly won't get you the bass (which is partly body parameters anyways) but it will de-crispify SC pickups nicely...and reversibly...without requiring any power.

km-r

Quote from: Steben on February 13, 2007, 02:52:24 AM
Start thinking about a booster that has its emphasis on lo-mid (200-500hz).

I used to make variations on tube screamers for strat-like people that liked a switch between normal (low-cut around 750Hz) and "fat" (low-cut around 400Hz). This sounded more like a HB position with the same single coil guitar.

so, what should i use? a first, second, or x-order low pass?
Look at it this way- everyone rags on air guitar here because everyone can play guitar.  If we were on a lawn mower forum, air guitar would be okay and they would ridicule air mowing.


rankot

Quote from: Mark Hammer on February 13, 2007, 02:35:08 PM
Craig Anderton had a circuit in Electronic Musician (I'd scan it but I can't find an XP driver for my scanner at the moment) for a pickup simulator.  It was essentially a sextet of selected bandpass filters, plus a highpass filter, fed to an op-amp mixer stage, via a set of dipswitches.  Pick filter X, Y, and Z, and you get closer to pickup P.  And that is the core idea: you get closer to a given voice, without necessarily replicating it.

Though far from instantly transforming a SC to HB, I like to use a small value tone-cap on my guitars, in the range of 3300-6800pf.  Thisd mimics the natural rolloff of HB pickups.  It certainly won't get you the bass (which is partly body parameters anyways) but it will de-crispify SC pickups nicely...and reversibly...without requiring any power.

Mark, I'm looking for this on the Net, but without success. Did you find that driver in the meantime? :D
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60 pedals and counting!

anotherjim

The funny thing about humbuckers is there are really two kinds and little use of a naming convention to tell them apart. Some are physically identical twin single coils side by side and polarity arranged for hum cancellation and both pickup from the string above their poles. Some are pure humbuckers with a matching slave coil that is only intended to cancel hum from the active coil - it isn't looking at a wider string area at all (what's the rationale for that idea?). You may have the "buck" coil add some signal via any magnetic coupling from the active coil but the string sensing is surely from the poles of the active coil.
If you see 2 sets of pole pieces, you have a twin coil. If you have only one set of pole pieces but 2 coils you have a humbucker.

I don't exactly know why the performance of the pure humbucker is as different as it is. It has a softer attack and a proportionately louder sustain than a single-coil as well as the more obvious reduced treble. We can explain the treble loss and simulate it easily but for the rest, it seems like you need a compressor to me.

amptramp

If you are just looking to measure the differences in the single-coil and humbucker, I would connect the output of the pickup to a variable inductance and see what you could tune it to in order to get the sound you want.  I would use a variac for the variable inductance (because I have one laying around).  The output would still be that of the single-coil into a high impedance but the frequency response would would favour low frequencies.  Then you could shop for a pickup with the same inductance / resistance / parallel capacitance and you would get the sound you want.  You might need a direct-reading inductance meter but these are cheap now and if you are into electronics an LRC meter is a great investment.

iainpunk

I have never seen a humbucker "with a matching slave coil that is only intended to cancel hum from the active coil " as far as i recall. All HB's i seen have 2 coils with magnetic pole pieces or screws.

Have any examples?

Cheers
friendly reminder: all holes are positive and have negative weight, despite not being there.

cheers

Ripthorn

Quote from: iainpunk on February 10, 2022, 10:04:21 AM
I have never seen a humbucker "with a matching slave coil that is only intended to cancel hum from the active coil " as far as i recall. All HB's i seen have 2 coils with magnetic pole pieces or screws.

Have any examples?

Cheers

The "noiseless" single coils are done this way. There is a smaller dummy coil underneath the main coil. The polepieces do not go through it, thus it doesn't have a significant effect on the magnetic field. It only serves to pick up primarily 50/60 Hz noise and is then wired out of phase with the pickup.
Exact science is not an exact science - Nikola Tesla in The Prestige
https://scientificguitarist.wixsite.com/home

anotherjim

So, why only one coil with exposed poles?

MikeA

Quote from: iainpunk on February 10, 2022, 10:04:21 AM
I have never seen a humbucker "with a matching slave coil that is only intended to cancel hum from the active coil " as far as i recall. All HB's i seen have 2 coils with magnetic pole pieces or screws.

Have any examples?
Taylor used a slave coil in their ES-1 pickup system for acoustic guitars.  Single coil hidden under the end of the fretboard, with a slave coil mounted right beside it on the underside of the top in the upper bout of the body.  They also had another pickup mounted to the top near the bridge for body vibrations, with a separate input to the preamp that could be switched off to reduce feedback.



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