dirty power

[Harry Muff]

had an incident in my house over the summer and had to remodel some stuff including the electric being messed with ...a friend of the family did some moving of outlets around, "grounded" my bathroom (said he was amazed I wasnt electrocuted to death in the last 15 years lol ) and for some stupid reason the old man put a dimmer on a living room light outlet without my say so..thought he was hooking me up ..

long story short, its so bad I cant play my guitar and believe is has ruined 4 circuits/pedals iwas building for myself ...it might be that dimmer switch and that has to come out soon ..but would an isolation transformer work so I can at least play and possibly build a pedal again?

I think they roached out on the breadboard in testing ...3 of them ..and I had a known working circuit from years ago I pulled apart and put on the test rig and now its roached out too ...

even my humbuckers and unplayable ..

trying to not have to hire an electrician ..they are very expensive and so far behind its hard to hire someone as my old man needed something at his house and cant get anyone over there because of the back up in work

my power conditioner and radial ground lift did nothing

even back in the day when i played out in a band I never had anything more than typical60 cycle hum but this is another level of frustration ..literally cant play ...even my humbuckers are not working ..

something like this work for my rig ? come off that with a power strip ? all I have is an amp and pedal board ..and my test rig on breadboard

BK Precision 1604A - Single Output Isolation Transformer

https://www.instructables.com/Isolation-transformer-upgrade-for-old-guitar-amps/

[Rob Strand]

the old man put a dimmer on a living room light outlet without my say so..thought he was hooking me up ..

long story short, its so bad I cant play my guitar and believe is has ruined 4 circuits/pedals iwas building for myself ...it might be that dimmer switch and that has to come out soon ..but would an isolation transformer work so I can at least play and possibly build a pedal again?

If the noise is only present when the light dimmer is on then that's the cause for sure. Some light dimmers
can generate a lot of RF.  It is quite possible cheap web sourced items are below standard (skimped caps
and coils for RF suppression).

If the light dimmer is actually wired to the power outlet then that's going generate noise on whatever is
connected to it.  In fact I suspect such a set-up is illegal as some loads could blow up or become a fire
hazard when connected to a light dimmer.

A set-up that should work independently of the light dimmer is:
- light dimmer off
- all audio powered from a known good power outlet.

If that doesn't work you might have ungrounded power outlets.

[Harry Muff]

its not the dimmer, I had the circuit breaker off and tested ..im going to remove it anyways

would any of these work for guitar rigs?

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/manufacturer/Furman?mrkgadid=3341312957&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=mtext&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=generic&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=43700046748649592&lid=43700046748649592&ds_s_kwgid=58700005287185615&ds_a_cid=405527921&ds_a_caid=9239381026&ds_a_agid=94525735900&ds_a_lid=kwd-346669912281&device=c&network=o&matchtype=p&adpos=largenumber&locationid=89421&creative=&targetid=kwd-77790687691686:loc-4095&campaignid=283638389&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=5ee19c30e4c81bd6eabafe10d2e0bdeb&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=5ee19c30e4c81bd6eabafe10d2e0bdeb


i am wondering the BK model will work the same as these expensive furmans ..the one I need might be 2k ..might be cheaper to get an electrician out here /that or sell all my guitar equip..i literally cant play

[Rob Strand]

Honestly, this sounds like a potentially dangerous situation.

If all was well before the remodeling/rewiring and now you have a problem I would be extremely worried.   It sounds like there is a significant problem with the mains wiring.  It's a fixable problem as it worked before.  The problem is finding it. 

Perhaps grounding the bathroom has exposed a preexisting issue and your audio equipment is allowing you to *detect* it!  Isolation transformers might fix the audio but that fix may then act only to  hide a potentially hazardous issue.  Then again it might not fix the problem at all and isolation transformers aren't cheap.

Noise in the audio like you are seeing can have many causes.  One cause is arcing.  Noise from arcing can get onto the power itself and it can also cause RF.   You might have arcing on the power, as a short or as a hot joint, or you may have significant leakage to ground.   Moving the wires around during remodeling may have cracked the insulation.

It is often possible to isolate the cause by turning *everything* off then pulling out all of the power outlets (not just switching them off at the switch).  For electric stoves and electric water-heaters it is best to pull the individual breakers if they have them.   You should see no power drawn at the switch board.  Current should only be measured using a clamp meter - not the current terminals on a multimeter.  Sometimes heating elements can fail and cause leakage to ground.   You want *disconnect* as much as possible from the wiring.    Connect things back one at a time until you find where the problem starts.  Then disconnect everything else and see if that single line or device [is still the cause].

Unfortunately you really need to know what you are doing to find and fix these problems.  The debugging process can expose you to hazards which could be lethal!    I actually removed some debugging methods from my post because of this.

[Harry Muff]

Honestly, this sounds like a potentially dangerous situation.

If all was well before the remodeling/rewiring and now you have a problem I would be extremely worried.   It sounds like there is a significant problem with the mains wiring.  It's a fixable problem as it worked before.  The problem is finding it. 

Perhaps grounding the bathroom has exposed a preexisting issue and your audio equipment is allowing you to *detect* it!  Isolation transformers might fix the audio but that fix may then act only hide a potentially hazardous issue.  Then again it might not fix the problem at all and isolation transformers aren't cheap.

Noise in the audio like you are seeing can have many causes.  One cause is arcing.  Noise from arcing can get onto the power itself and it can also cause RF.   You might have arcing on the power, as a short or as a hot joint, or you may have significant leakage to ground.   Moving the wires around during remodeling may have cracked the insulation.

It is often possible to isolate the cause by turning *everything* off then pulling out all of the power outlets (not just switching them off at the switch).  For electric stoves and electric water-heaters it is best to pull the individual breakers if they have them.   You should see no power drawn at the switch board.  Current should only be measured using a clamp meter - not the current terminals on a multimeter.  Sometimes heating elements can fail and cause leakage to ground.   You want *disconnect* as much as possible from the wiring.    Connect things back one at a time until you find where the problem starts.  Then disconnect everything else and see if that single line or device

Unfortunately you really need to know what you are doing to find and fix these problems.  The debugging process can expose you to hazards which could be lethal!    I actually removed some debugging methods from my post because of this.

no its all good ..im not going to touch anything . I would call an electrician from a known company

the guy who helped my old man is a retired electrician , used to work at the power plant and docks ...i think you are right about maybe opening up something else. he was probably just in a hurry to get stuff up and running and go home ..not really being thorough throughout ...

[Rob Strand]

the guy who helped my old man is a retired electrician , used to work at the power plant and docks ...i think you are right about maybe opening up something else. he was probably just in a hurry to get stuff up and running and go home ..not really being thorough throughout ...

He could have done everything right but there was a pre-existing issue.    It's always a headache when that happens and you were the last one to touch it!

[Fancy Lime]

Do you have or can you borrow some kind of battery operated little amp? When playing through that, is the noise still there? If so, your electric mains may act as an RF antenna. Does this persist if you shut off power to the entire house? If not, your neighbor's house may be the antenna. If the problem only occurs with equipment plugged into a power outlet, are you sure there are no additional "surprise dimmers" that nobody told you about? Can you get someone to at least check if the grounding is ok? That should not take too long and is kinda safety relevant. Can you tell if your house draws more power "on idle" since the renovation?

Andy

[Harry Muff]

Do you have or can you borrow some kind of battery operated little amp? When playing through that, is the noise still there? If so, your electric mains may act as an RF antenna. Does this persist if you shut off power to the entire house? If not, your neighbor's house may be the antenna. If the problem only occurs with equipment plugged into a power outlet, are you sure there are no additional "surprise dimmers" that nobody told you about? Can you get someone to at least check if the grounding is ok? That should not take too long and is kinda safety relevant. Can you tell if your house draws more power "on idle" since the renovation?

Andy

im looking into stuff..im kind of short on money, know how and friends lol ...soon as I get a ittle extra money Im going to have a electrician come out

[amptramp]

You can get an indicator that plugs into the wall outlet and has three neon lights that connect between ground, neutral and high.  It should light up between ground and high and neutral and high but not ground and neutral.  If any other light combination is shown, the wiring is incorrect.  Mine was about $6, so it's not that expensive and it cuts the hours for an electrician to be told about the presence or absence of a miswired socket.

[LightSoundGeometry]

what about a variac ?  BK Precision 1655A ?

[Rob Strand]

what about a variac ?  BK Precision 1655A ?

Unlikely to solve the problem.  A variac usually doesn't isolate.  The problem is in the house.

[Processaurus]

You can get an indicator that plugs into the wall outlet

That's the best advice in this thread. They're about $6 at the hardware store. Every musician that plays out should have one in their music kit, to check the outlets they're plugging into at dive bars and diy spaces, backyards and basements and 150 year old theaters.

[amptramp]

You can get an indicator that plugs into the wall outlet

That's the best advice in this thread. They're about $6 at the hardware store. Every musician that plays out should have one in their music kit, to check the outlets they're plugging into at dive bars and diy spaces, backyards and basements and 150 year old theaters.

If I were to build an amplifier for serious gigging, I would build this functionality right into the amplifier so you can't leave home without it or lose it.

[Wavelength]

Harry,
I would have your power company come out out and check your service. I showed at CES one year (High End Audio) and we powered everything through a PS Audio PowerPlant (regenerator). But I had lent another room amps and preamps and their sound sucked. I grabbed a meter and the AC was at 98Vac. Called the Vegas power company and they upped the voltage, which was terrible because they goosed it to 132Vac and stuff started blowing fuses.

I had two customers with bad AC. Both tested 117-120vac US typical but both just had terrible results. One customer was on the same grid as a hospital. All that noise meant he needed a condition to filter it out and that fixed everything. The other one had two problems. His incoming lines were Aluminum not copper. The power company came out and replaced those for free. But the other problem he had was an AM radio station was on the same grid. He went through a number of filters before fixing that problem.

If everything sucks then I would say your probably under voltage. You can measure the wall and see.

Good luck,
Gordon

[PRR]

...His incoming lines were Aluminum not copper. ...

ALL incoming lines are Aluminum. If you leave Copper out, somebody steals it. Anyway Aluminum is better than Copper if you just make it twice as big. Aluminum is very much cheaper per size than Copper.

More likely problem is bad termination. Especially with large RF too. You wire-brush the ends and clamps, apply magic cream, and torque exactly to spec. (This is not homeowner work.)