Ideas of a two circuit distortion a la Pelitaur

[jdoughty]

So, I want to do a blended two circuit distortion. I want to combine a Boss DS1 and a Rat, and have a blend knob. For those unfamiliar with the Pelitaur, its a two fuzzes that the 'gain' knob is actually a blend for the two fuzzes, and the 'treble' knob is a tone control that is wired opposite in each circuit (if one gets warmer, the other circuit is getting brighter).

The DS1 and Rat have opposite tone knobs, so I wouldn't have to sweat the easy bit of 'flipping' the tone of one circuit. However, I'm imagining its more complicated than just wire up two circuits side by side, and as an ambitious newbie, I'd love some help thinking through things I'll have to solve.

My intended controls: Gain, Volume, Tone, and Blend.

I'm imagining I'll need to figure out power for both circuits, and both circuits will need identical levels of input signal, which will probably mean I'll need a boost at the beginning since it'll be split. I'll probably have to do some kind of tweaking at the end to ensure both sides are similar in output, but I don't think they are worlds apart, though I know less about the DS1's volume atm.

If you guys know articles or anything that could help, I'd love to check them out. I'm very much in the early 'this is an just an idea, but one I want to try bad enough to understand what I need' phase. I need to build a few more pedals 'by the book' before I start, but if its not crazy, I may start on it sooner.

[PRR]

Some of us, regrettably, have not memorized all pedals. Even some of the classics.

DS1:
https://postimg.cc/mP2k3tZG
Huh. 40 years old tomorrow.

Rat:
https://postimg.cc/YjGs93Q5

[jdoughty]

Good call, should have thought about the schematics being helpful!

https://www.electrosmash.com/boss-ds1-analysis
https://www.electrosmash.com/proco-rat
So I'm thinking the trick will be combining the output stage of the Rat and output buffer of the DS1 and adding a blend stage before it.


Additionally I could perhaps use the buffer stage in the DS1 as a point to expand on and create an input split.

That's all the analysis I've done thus far... so not much.

[iainpunk]

welcome to the forum,

i like the idea, its a good concept, has been successful in the past, but a few things:

1) phase - the phase of the fundamental frequency is flipped on one of the pedals, so mixing them gives a thin fizzy and broken tone.
2) texture - the power of the pelitaur is the huge difference in tone and texture between the two pedals, one is an ''octave fuzz'' the other is more distortion-like and the difference between the two is what makes this pedal awesome... the DS-1 and RAT are 95% the same, tone wise, so the blend would be kind of pointless here., i'd recommend something like a tube screamer style circuit (open and mid range focused) to replace the DS1 to change the texture a bit more and gain the benefit of mixing them.
3) gain - one of the fuzzes in the pelitaur has huge gain (big muff), and the other way less (octave fuzz). the RAT and DS-1 are really similar in gain levels, this can be quite ''boring'' to blend, and i point bakc to the tube screamer circuit suggestion, since it has less perceived gain.

cheers, Iain

[soggybag]

These are both very similar circuits. They both use a single op-amp followed by a pair of clipping diodes. Doesn't seem like like mixing the two would offer a whole lot.

The Pelitaur sounds interesting. I hadn't heard of it.

Why not just make two op-amp and clipping diode distortions each with a gain control. Voice one low and one high then mix these.

[jdoughty]

I like the idea of the screamer replacement. Otherwise, I could really see the benefit of just making a new two op amp circuit. I think the screamer makes sense, and is easier than say a klon from a circuit perspective. If I do this, should I make it like the pelitaur and make the gain the blend knob? I think I'll probably want to keep it since the rat alone has alot of sounds in it that I'd lose access to without the gain knob, but what do you guys think?

[jdoughty]

Just looked at the circuit for a tube screamer... Man there's alot to the original's switch! May look for a true by-pass version... Or just get over myself

https://www.electrosmash.com/tube-screamer-analysis

[GibsonGM]

Just looked at the circuit for a tube screamer... Man there's alot to the original's switch! May look for a true by-pass version... Or just get over myself

https://www.electrosmash.com/tube-screamer-analysis

The bypass switching isn't as big a mystery as it looks at first (well, 5 years later, ha ha), but I don't think I'd bother with it, myself.  I'd incorporate it into something like a preamp,perhaps...something 'worthwhile' where you really want bells & whistles.  YMMV of course.   TB is the standard, is simple and basically bomb-proof.     FET switching IS neat though, LOL.   As you can kind of see, it's why the pedals are buffered when off - the actual schematic shows this better.

HERE is your basic TS with true bypass!  http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/effects-projects/distortion/tube-screamer/

[jdoughty]

Yeah I like the idea of doing a buffer like that eventually. I'll definitely do the true bypass this go though

[iainpunk]

what i meant with the tube screamer suggestion was more a suggestion of character, not a suggestion of exact circuit. the TS is quite clean and mid range focused, the RAT is more fuzz like and scooped.

funny thing you mention the Centaur, since it is actually a circuit mixing a hard clipping stages mid range with the clean signal's high and low end. both the hard-clipping's gain and the mix amount are determined by the gain knob.

cheers, Iain

[jdoughty]

Yeah, I like the idea of the screamer. I'm not sure of any other mid focused pedals that aren't a fuzz face? That said... That ain't a terrible idea either  I wonder what a tone on a fuzz face would be like...

I hadn't realized the mids came from the gain circuit of the klon! Things make alot more sense now on what I've seen when I play with my medusa klone.

So anyway, I'm thinking rat/screamer. May be an interesting breadboard project. How would power work do you guys think?

[iainpunk]

the fuzz face has a slightly scooped mid range tho, superfuzz (tone 1, tone2 is scooped) or HM-2 have a lot of mid range to play with.

i would use a quad opamp so the rat and screamer share the same power

cheers, Iain

[jdoughty]

Good idea, that'd reduce my complexity quite a bit!

Oooo, an HM2... that's a scary... wonderful idea...

Thinking I may have to get a mixer and try some pedals in parallel to see what I like most. I may build this in the mean time regardless just to work out the kinks of the process.

[iainpunk]

do you have a breadbord?

that is the most wonderful tool for experimenting with schematics.
you don't have to do a clone, you can change around and stack gain stages and tone stacks and other features as much as you want.

does the mixer have an invert input function?
some pedals invert the signal and some don't and that difference will do bad things to the resultant tone. (loss of bass and gnarly treble and mid range)

cheers, Iain

[jdoughty]

Yeah I need to start breaking it out more often, and doing something original, it's probably requisite. I'll see what I chips I have laying around tonight and maybe give it a start.

[hanajijang]

You're not obligated to create a clone; feel free to experiment by rearranging and stacking gain stages, tone stacks, and other features to your liking.

<hidden spam link removed>

[GibsonGM]

I wonder how it turned out?