Using high end caps?

[gnugear]

Space permitting, I'm wondering if any of you guys have tried using higher end capacitors in your pedals. I built a couple of Marshalls using Orange Drops, Mallorys, Solens, Aura caps, cheapy Xicons, and soZo mustard clones. All sounded different, but the "hi-fi" caps were a little sterile. Do you think the same would apply to pedals?

Same goes for resistors. I tried carbon film, carbon comp, and metal film ... finally settling on the Vishay/Dale metal film resistors as my favorite.

[AL]

There is an article called the sound of capacitors somewhere around the net (GEO FX ?). There have also been discussions about using these in pedals. Although opinions vary I believe the general consensus is that you won't be able to tell a difference in pedals due to numerous reasons - one being the low voltage. And I may be wrong on all of that.  

You've also got some pretty serious space constraints in pedals that you don't have in an amp. But if you're up for it give it shot and let us know what happens.

AL

[mlabbee]

http://members.aol.com/sbench102/caps.html

Here's the article on caps.  The site is devoted to amp designs, so the results may only be applicable to high voltage applications.  also, I think he is looking mostly from the point of view of hi-fi, not guitar (where distortion may be desirable).

Also, run a search in this forum for best capacitors - I was wondering the same thing the other day and found a number of interesting threads with some great links to articles on the subject.  After going through it all, I decided that I wasn't going to worry about it and stick to Xicon greenies unless I had some specific contraint (like size considerations).

[phillip]

The higher quality capacitors question has always been a bit of a point of debate, but I personally think that it sure can't hurt to use higher quality capacitors in a circuit.  I've started using the AVX boxed metal film capacitors from Mouser.  They're small, have a 0.2" lead spacing and are cheaper than the non-metallized poly. film "greenies."  I also use Panasonic V-Series stacked metal film capacitors from Digikey when I have them in the values that I need.  But since Mouser is my main parts source, I've started keeping the AVX box caps in my parts bins instead.  

The only shortcoming of the AVX box caps is that their leads are pretty short, so there's not much room for lead bending.  I think they're meant for automated PCB assembly where the machine "grabs" the nice flat sides of the cap and drops it right down into the PCB holes.

FWIW, I think that using higher quality capacitors in pedals like compressors, preamps, boosters and other circuits that aren't meant to distort is always a good idea.  It can't hurt to put them in fuzzes, overdrives and distortions, either.  They're especially useful when you want to replace something like small value electrolytic and tantalum capacitors with a non-polarized metal film capacitor.  The largest AVX box metal film capacitor that Mouser stocks is a 2.2uF, but film caps that big aren't cheap!

Phillip

[Dragonfly]

The higher quality capacitors question has always been a bit of a point of debate, but I personally think that it sure can't hurt to use higher quality capacitors in a circuit.  I've started using the AVX boxed metal film capacitors from Mouser.  They're small, have a 0.2" lead spacing and are cheaper than the non-metallized poly. film "greenies."  I also use Panasonic V-Series stacked metal film capacitors from Digikey when I have them in the values that I need.  But since Mouser is my main parts source, I've started keeping the AVX box caps in my parts bins instead.  

The only shortcoming of the AVX box caps is that their leads are pretty short, so there's not much room for lead bending.  I think they're meant for automated PCB assembly where the machine "grabs" the nice flat sides of the cap and drops it right down into the PCB holes.

FWIW, I think that using higher quality capacitors in pedals like compressors, preamps, boosters and other circuits that aren't meant to distort is always a good idea.  It can't hurt to put them in fuzzes, overdrives and distortions, either.  They're especially useful when you want to replace something like small value electrolytic and tantalum capacitors with a non-polarized metal film capacitor.  The largest AVX box metal film capacitor that Mouser stocks is a 2.2uF, but film caps that big aren't cheap!

Phillip

i tend to agree with phillip on this...quality can "never" hurt...

is it necessary? no...

is it gonna help? maybe....

i think it helps more "cumulatively...in other words, say youre looking at resistors...will 1 metal film make a difference? no...but doing the whole circuit inn them will definitely help...

im actually getting ready to build some fuzz faces that use riken ohm resistors, black gate electrolytics, and a auricap for the output cap. why...because for my personal pedals, i want the best...and i want the peace of mind that comes with having the best.

andy
dragonfly fx

[NaBo]

you're gonna be grooving with so much mojo.  you should use these, too
http://www.referenceaudiomods.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=NOB_C37_C&Category_Code=VOLUME&Product_Count=2

[captntasty]

Oh man!  That's what I want for X-mas...  only 10 grand for my amp and I'll be getting so many "Good Vibrations" Brian Wilson will be incapacitated for a couple years!
:wink:
As far as quality components go, good quality = reliability.  But, do we need to go to massive extremes?  Probably not...  sometimes the best sounds of yesteryear happened when the technology available at the time was only "good enough" - can you say Ge transistors?  
Peace, -P

[javacody]

Edit: I'm asking Santa for those knobs again this year. Last year he just brought me top notch capacitors, the evil bastard.   The year before that it was metal film 1% resistors. I'd so much rather have cheap components, I just can't stand it.

[black mariah]

Man, I thought all those "better sounding knob" comments on here were just jokes at the expense of audiophiles. I didn't think even THOSE idiots could go that low. I need to buy a lathe. People that stupid should not be allowed to keep their money for long.

[mlabbee]

Is that for real? I thought it was a parody site . . . $500 for a wooden knob?  No one can possibly be that f***ing stupid.  Right?   :shock:

[bobbletrox]

got caps?  

[NaBo]

LOL!!! what the hell are those? are they rated at like 9000 volts or something??  

[Dai H.]

hey gnu,

IMO, the value of those parts depends on the situation. Might be better, worse, or not make any diff. I remember I replaced the electrolytics in my old Rat with Black Gates and carbon Rs with metal films. It sounded good at home through this crappy Boss amp emulator (through headphones),  but when I took it to my cousin's place and tried it through his crappy Marshall practice amp (valvestate??), it sounded embarrassingly thin (so I ended up putting back all the old parts). The Vox Valvetone, which some people like has some of those audiophile type electrolytics (Nichicon MUSE), so maybe those are a good match for what they were trying to do. (As an aside, I found a bunch of those MUSE caps dirt cheap at this surplus place and I bought a couple because the mama-san was suggesting I grab some. I wasn't particularly interested but I bought a couple just because she is pretty cool, and I thought, "what the hell".. Kinda makes you wonder what those audiophile alu electros are going for wholesale. I think someone after me hoarded them because they showed up on Yahoo Japan auctions, lol...) I think it makes sense to try to find stuff like that such as large value film caps surplus then try a bunch of stuff and just go with what sounds good. There doesn't seem to be any guarantee that the "superior" parts will make a pedal sound better, at least in my experience. Practically, you might face cost (audiophile parts can be REALLY expensive compared to garden variety) and space constraints (a 10uF film cap is probably going to be a LOT bigger than an cheap ordinary alu electrolytic--though manf.'s seem to have gotten quite good at miniaturizing films over the years based on the stuff I've seen. Generally, it seems caps are more audible than resistors.

[petemoore]

Ok here's the latest from my camp on caps.
 Cumulatively I can certainly tell a difference, how certain? Trust me when I say there's a difference between AVX boxers, and little Greenies.
 THe AVX sounded 'smoother'. Not that this is always a quality you'd want in say a Double Muff. [This was yesterdays cap testbed].
 Who could say the values were exactly the same [ of course they coudn't be], or that something else didn't influence the results as guaged by ear.
 I'm of the opinion...Whatever the difference is, it is not Huge, but it is there, and different type caps are so 'illusive' to review or report on, because if you go to a close tolerance the values will be *slightly different] all I can say is something like 'smoother', even though the difference hardly rates such a distinctive word, and I feel like greenies do what they do, not that one is even 'better' or worse, but decidely just a little different.
 I dont' use the flat brown types....lol.
 Other than that changing the 'value of the cap Should make much more of a difference to a circuit function.
 I like my AVX's tho...confused...you should be...
 Try building one with one type another with the other and tell me what you think, putting aside all preconcieved notions about mojo...[not[...with blind testing.