Is it ok to use 25V & 16V ceramic disk caps?

[Bluesgeetar]

Is it ok to use 25V & 16V ceramic disk caps?  I ask this because of all the circuits I have seen and of all the talk here on the forum I have never heard any mention or have seen any circuit use 25V and 16V ceramic disk caps in pedals.  It seems everyone here and in effects history prefers 50V or higher in ceramic disks.  what gives?

[Paul Marossy]

Sure, you could use them. But I have read that using low voltage caps in audio circuits doesn't work very well because they are pretty non-linear. Check out this page:

http://members.aol.com/sbench102/caps.html

If I decide to use ceramics, I try use ones rated for 1KV.

[Peter Snowberg]

I'm with Paul.

They'll work, but they're the junk-food of capacitors. I would rather have steak and a nice salad from a restaurant than a Twinkie.

Take care,
-Peter

[Bluesgeetar]

Don't know.  I heard many vintage pedals that sounded awesome that had ceramic disks in them.  I think that Bosstone is nothing but all .022uf ceramic disks.  But then again I think Electrolytics are dull and lifeless sounding.  I hate electrolytics.

[GuitarLord5000]

I definately like ceramic disks for distortions.  I've also used lower voltage (no less than 16v though) caps for a few of my projects with no ill effects.  I guess it's up to the creators ears to make the decision of whether it sounds good or not.  As long as it wont screw up my effect, I'm willing to try just about anything!

[Paul Marossy]

Well, it is a personal preference thing. Some people like the sound of ceramic caps. I have built a few circuits with them, and they seem to contribute to a more crunchy feel.

This is a long standing debate - film vs. ceramic vs. vs. vs....
I personally think the average person (non-musician) wouldn't hear a difference between ceramics and films. And probably the average musician for that matter. But it does also depend on what kind of circuit those caps find themselves in and where they are located as well.

Besides that, for some cap values, the easiet thing to be had is ceramic caps, and they are pretty cheap, too.

Electrolytics have their uses. I'll agree that they don't sound too good when they are directly in the signal path. They do seem to kill all of the dynamics.

[Fret Wire]

Ceramics work fine. Sound fine? Like many things, it's subjective. The original Dist. plus has 4 ceramics and 2 tantalums, no electro's (which I hate). They make some really high quality tant's too (Panasonic).  The rule of thumb rating is at least twice the expected voltage, hence 16v. Electro's, ceramics, and tant's were all chosen for their cost,  and space saving effectiveness, and do the job nicely. I always prefer metal film were values and space permit. Mojo BS or not, ceramics are still prefered in certain sections of  tube amp circuits.

[Peter Snowberg]

Can anybody suggest a ceramic make that has a solid epoxy coating, LOW microphonics, and ceramic mojo?

Thanks,
-Peter

[Sic]

Peter... lol


Steak and Salad?... Twinkie... Ceramic Mojo?


You feeling okay today buddy?

lol, it may be that its 4am, and i have to get up soon... but that gave me a good chuckle.

Thanks :p

[Paul Marossy]

That is another good point. Sometimes ceramic caps can be very microphonic. Not good for a distortion circuit, unless you like lots of unwanted feedback.

I forget what the criteria is for microphonics in ceramic caps.

And, it that is true about ceramic caps in certain parts of tube circuits.

[Peter Snowberg]

I was quite surprised to find that Joe Satriani actually hunts around for the place on the stage where his pedals sound best :? (got that from somebody he buys gear from). The only reasoning that I could come up with for this would be ceramic microphonics. He's one of those "backed by a wall of cabinets" players so I could see it actually happening without too much of a stretch.

Sic, I like food and cooking analogies for electronic in general because they seem to get the point across fairly easily. I like most kinds of food, but I won't touch twinkies, even with a long pole. Now Ho-Hos on the other hand....

In my experience, it seems that the closer you get to the voltage rating on a cap, the more you are able to hear the difference between various technologies (speaking of ceramic, film, and aluminum electrolytic). Tants have always been a bit of an enigma, but in the right place they show their character too. Steve Bench's scope traces show that they need a lot of bias voltage to loose their specific flavor. I think every time I've replaced a ceramic with silver-mica, the results have been very worth the effort.

Viva film caps!

Take care,
-Peter

[Paul Marossy]

Film caps and silver micas do seem to sound the best in guitar FX. But I have also used ceramics to good effect.  I think it boils down to how much gain the circuit has.

[freebird1127]

In my experience, it seems that the closer you get to the voltage rating on a cap, the more you are able to hear the difference between various technologies (speaking of ceramic, film, and aluminum electrolytic).

So you're saying that if I use a 100V Electro, 100V Ceramic, or 100V tantalum in the circuit at the same point, It will be less likely that I'll hear the difference it's making than if I use all 16V caps?

[Peter Snowberg]

So you're saying that if I use a 100V Electro, 100V Ceramic, or 100V tantalum in the circuit at the same point, It will be less likely that I'll hear the difference it's making than if I use all 16V caps?

In my experience this is the case, but all of my real A/B testing (using a toggle switch) was done in tube amps with 300 or more volts of B+. Things may be very different at 9V. Only your ears will tell.

I've replaced a lot of caps without the A/B treatment and liked the results after the "upgrade", but maybe I'm convincing myself of things that don't exist. I can't discount that possibility.

The best way IMHO to determine this stuff for yourself is to make a circuit, match two caps for capacitance, and A/B them while somebody else plays. After all... the only opinion that matters in your gear is yours.

Take care,
-Peter

[Jim Jones]

I dunno - I think we're deep into heavily subjective territory here...

Personal preference is what it boils down to so like anything DIY audio related, you pretty much have to try different caps for yourself to see what you like - that's all that really matters anyway.

I'm a fan of ceramics myself.  In amps circuits especially - sub a silver mica for the ceramic 250p or 470p cap in the tone stack - instant neutering of the Marshall grind IMO.

Jim