cascading amplifiers

jazzyfingers04 · June 21, 2004, 05:03:13 PM

I have been wondering lately about trying to build a 2 watt amplifier and then using that for power tube dist. The idea is to use the 2 watter like a herzog box, running into another amp.
- the question is, could I run such a device into another amp without causing permanent damage to the second amp?
- are there any alternatives to my method that would be better?

Mark Hammer · June 21, 2004, 05:16:12 PM

Why does it need to be a power amp? Why can't it just be a high gain preamp?

jazzyfingers04 · June 21, 2004, 05:22:01 PM

the idea is to get power tube dist. I guess that I am trying to get a ballsier sound, and I want to play with tubes.

puretube · June 21, 2004, 05:29:09 PM

herzog box?

jazzyfingers04 · June 21, 2004, 05:40:24 PM

That's my wonderful lingo coming into play for me. The herzog effect is essentially a fender champ hooked up somehow to be used as an overdrive. IIRC, the Herzog came in a fairly large box with a footswitch (ala channel switch on an amp). Thus, herzog box.

I just want to know if an average amp could withstand the 2 watts of output from a small amplifier.

David · June 21, 2004, 05:46:29 PM

The Herzog? Haven't heard that in a dog's age! That was the thing that Randy Bachman used on "American Woman" IIRC...

jazzyfingers04 · June 21, 2004, 05:51:24 PM

that's right David, that is the monster indeed.

I think I found an alternative that may work better though, here: http://www.lynx.net/~jc/pedalsAmpLineOut.html. I think I will try his recomendation about it, and splice it into my existing ideas.

Anyways, thanks for your patience...

Skreddy · June 21, 2004, 05:56:28 PM

You should probably run it through a Weber load box http://www.webervst.com/mass.html before sending the power output of any amp into the input of another.

I've used an old low-watt amp (a portable Wallensak reel-to-reel recorder with a PA speaker output) through a Tom Shultz Powersoak as an overdrive effect in the past, and it's quite a nice effect.

Here's a clip that really features very little distortion; it's mainly to get the character of the Wallensak and cascade what distortion is there into the next amp; in this case a Peavey Classic 30 combo. http://happybob.com/skreddy/sounds/MyFloydishSong.mp3 Other effects used were script-logo Dynacomp, Phase 90 reissue, Roland SpaceEcho RE201.

The Powersoak tends to sound buzzy at high levels of attenuation, plus it's not really good for amps. I can tell because I blew the mains once and something else much worse than a fuse another time in my Sovtek amp using the 'Soak. Bright side: now I have a very nice box to build a better amp in!

The Tone God · June 21, 2004, 06:42:09 PM

The Herzog is basiclly a Fender Champ with a dummy load and pot that taps off the output. Nothing special. I don't have the schematic on hand but thats what I remember. There was a BTO version that had a few other minor features.

Andrew

Peter Snowberg · June 21, 2004, 08:56:17 PM

IIRC, the Herzog device just ovderdrove the poop out of the input stage of the real amp. He got the sound he liked by attaching the champ to his power amp via a tap on the speaker wires of his tube amp which had been disconnected from the speakers! :shock: He took a blown amp to Mr. Garnett who flipped when he heard the no speaker part. He then built up the dummy load based device.

I think the gain is boosted too on the preamp. (larger resistors)

Take care,
-Peter

RDV · June 21, 2004, 10:28:34 PM

Quote from: The Tone GodThe Herzog is basiclly a Fender Champ with a dummy load and pot that taps off the output. Nothing special. I don't have the schematic on hand but thats what I remember. There was a BTO version that had a few other minor features.

Hey, Hey ,Hey! Wait a stinkin' minute! You said you were young! You're not supposed to know who Randy Bachman, Turner, or his Overdrive is!

Tee Hee Hee

Guess Who!?

The Tone God · June 21, 2004, 10:33:33 PM

From inspection I didn't see the resistors changed on the preamp. I did see some cathode caps changed but not by much. My guess would be those were the standard value caps that were around Garnet's shop for other amp models.

IIRC all the Herzogs have is a small load resistor with a 1meg pot connected in parallel and a 220K resistor off the wiper. Its similar to line out jacks on some amps. THis is from memory. I would have to dig up my schematic to be sure but I don't think anyone is that interested.

Quote from: RDVHey, Hey ,Hey! Wait a stinkin' minute! You said you were young! You're not supposed to know who Randy Bachman, Turner, or his Overdrive is!

Tee Hee Hee

Guess Who!?

Lol. I am young but I feel real damn old. :? Plus I get around the scene very well here. BTW, Randy has lost ALOT of weight recently.

Andrew

petemoore · June 21, 2004, 11:12:10 PM

I had a honkin' power soak a Dude made with brick resistors. I didn't like using it on low, it would get hot, I thought it was going to melt it's solder,,,plus sounded mushy...thinkin'g of all that power just going to heat the bar...sound man was trying to be forceful, and make me set it on low...
I've seen people do that, plug one amp in another, sound like real loud and stuff then blow, not always, one dude used that as his amp for about a year...a record player plugeed in a stereo...noisey thing.
I resolved to get the right size amp, but have found that adding extra tube gain stages before the input of the amps preamp can be loads of fun.

bwanasonic · June 21, 2004, 11:41:51 PM

Anyone tried the Tech 21 American Woman Overdrive? Not exactly stellar reviews at HC, but curious about it's architecture (and how it sounds of course). At least the ad copy alleges it cops that Herzog thing.

Kerry M

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cascading amplifiers