Face Off..?

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 09:21:42 AM

... as shown the 'first' face is mellow, sweet [probably needs less HF roloff...to taste]. {Second cct. is the RM Axis Fuzz w/input gain mod pot].
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/petemoore/TWOFACES.bmp
THe "Redcaps" are optional, I show two places where rolloff could happen, [before/after Q2, but you'll need only one of these two], and At Q1b to ground.
This is my first posted schematic, thanks RDV for helping me with 'P.Bucket'...lol!! and Everyone else for Everything Else...!!!

ENJOY !!!!!!!!!!

Phorhas · January 28, 2005, 10:35:27 AM

Looks pretty cool... so many fuzz boxes and so few pedal board slots...

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 11:27:20 AM

This could be made on a 'moderate' sized board...

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 12:34:43 PM

Quote from: PhorhasLooks pretty cool... so many fuzz boxes and so few pedal board slots...

Yes, this is a big one.

Dragonfly · January 28, 2005, 12:48:29 PM

Quote from: petemoore...One face at a time, as shown the 'first' face is mellow, sweet [probably needs less HF roloff...to taste].
Features High Max Saturation, Great Guitvol. Gain control !!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/petemoore/TWOFACES.bmp
THe "Redcaps" are optional, I show two places where rolloff could happen, [before/after Q2, but you'll need only one of these two], and At Q1b. This keeps the AXIS that follows from 'hashing out' the high end too much.
The 220 could be Gnd at both ends, from JAck Ormans AMZ YAFF/. 2n2369 in Q1 may want it's emitter grounded...
I haven't tried the AXIS FUZZ's cap across the 1k2... :shock: .yet
This is my first posted schematic, thanks RDV for helping me with 'P.Bucket'...lol!! and Everyone else for Everything Else...!!!
I expect you'll be liking this. Great for Hendrixian 'channelling', blows doors open...makes my Tube AmP HOWL!!!, or sound like my guitar.
ENJOY !!!!!!!!!!
So Long...Probly see ya'...I hope so...[Steinbeck].

looks good....i just built a similar Face that sounds unbelievable....Q1 and Q1's collector are 100k and 20k trims, the 470 ohm resistor is a 1k, the emitter of Q2 goes toa 1k8 resistor and a 22u cap direct to ground, and the 100k is replaced by a 100k trim....has a 2m2 pulldown on front, and goes to a 100k pot for volume control on the end. i used a 2n2369 silicon and a ac187 germanium with it.......pure Cream tone with the SG/JMP, and pure Hendrix with the strat/JMP ....cleans up great with the guitars volume....damn, i still love fuzz face style circuits

rawk on !

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 01:11:24 PM

I've often found time to work on an old, or make a new face.

Dragonfly · January 28, 2005, 01:14:06 PM

Quote from: petemooreOK...this is a "Double Face", or a FF circuit before a RM AXIS FUZZ.

ahhh...i see...the circuit you posted leads *to* a axis....still, should make a great stand-alone FF with the mods suggested

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 01:29:14 PM

It works.

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 06:17:40 PM

I tried this with a FF as second stage.

RedHouse · January 28, 2005, 06:55:00 PM

Wow I hope you don't call it a 2FACE, or II Face as it were, I've been building and selling a dual FF for some time now as the 2FACE and a second generation one I'm calling the FFÂ².

Geez, now that I think about it, maybe I'm steppin on your toes?

My first was in '98, it has a PNP pos-gnd Ge on one half, and PNP pos-gnd Si on the other.

lenwood · January 28, 2005, 08:01:48 PM

Hey Pete, on your schematic what does changing from 33k to 47K do?
Is that just to bias Q1?

petemoore · January 28, 2005, 09:02:11 PM

I think I ended up 'here' because I have trubbles with Tonebenders.
Wins races [on my track record] it's in 1rst position for good reasons.

petemoore · January 29, 2005, 11:32:15 AM

Quote from: lenwoodHey Pete, on your schematic what does changing from 33k to 47K do?
Is that just to bias Q1?

Basically nothing much except not matter much, [ ] allowing the use of a 47k to get yer FF on when you run out of 33k's. I've even used 100k pots and I didn't notice a noteworthy different except diminished then lost function as the pot neared the end of < range [I think if you go too low, probly around 10k it starts gating 'n then shutting off]. 33k, 39k, 47k ... all should work fine, with a Q2 collector pot as V/R to set bias for the Cct.
Changing Q=Changing bias, most of them are running close, in the 'good' range, sept Fets, and of course the ubiquitous Ge's, which I have easier time with in Q1 position.

petemoore · January 29, 2005, 12:03:14 PM

The 100k '?' is still open to me. I never messed with that one much.
Let's see the signal is inverted, then re-inverted thru Q1, Q2...so non-inverted re-inforcement' of signal is taking place as Q2 starts 'lighting' up.
Perhaps this would be a good spot to splice.
Cut 100k R out
replace with seriesed ~68k and 100k pot [as V/R]...test with different gain Si transistors. Raising resistance [in 'my' cyphers] would lower feedback hence gain.
Thanks to Tim Escebedo...many faces of fuzz, I just haven't heard the 'lowdown' or the user comments on this mod.

Paul Perry (Frostwave) · January 29, 2005, 07:20:33 PM

Quote from: RedHouseWow I hope you don't call it a 2FACE, or II Face as it were, I've been building and selling a dual FF for some time now as the 2FACE and a second generation one I'm calling the FFÂ².

So long as you don't call it the JANUS.. I bagsy that one :wink:

petemoore · January 29, 2005, 07:30:27 PM

Quote from: Paul Perry (Frostwave)
Quote from: RedHouseWow I hope you don't call it a 2FACE, or II Face as it were, I've been building and selling a dual FF for some time now as the 2FACE and a second generation one I'm calling the FFÂ².

So long as you don't call it the JANUS.. I bagsy that one :wink:

What Is "JANUS" ?

Paul Perry (Frostwave) · January 29, 2005, 08:06:08 PM

Quote from: petemooreWhat Is "JANUS" ?

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/j/janus.html

a 'two-faced' god... geddit? :wink:

Dragonfly · January 30, 2005, 02:14:45 AM

....so Pete...

i built this FF silicon variation tonite, with some ideas from your schemo, as well as some from Brett Robinson and Phillip Bryant...i REALLY like it a lot...very smooth...

i have yet to test it at high volume, as its late (2 am) , but sounds fantastic at lower volume, so it should be good. also, i used a 2N2369 in q1 (hfe=80), and a 2N2222 in q2 (hfe=165) ...the 2N2222 has a bit higher hfe than id normally use in q2, but i thought it might give a bit more "push" since the circuit has some of the highs attenuated a bit....

heres the schemo...

andy

petemoore · January 30, 2005, 09:30:15 AM

I'm pleased you decided to try this.
I've been a tunin' on it, usin' and whatever 2 tranny circuit [that cleans up with guitvol].
The basic idea WILL Work great with Axis or FF [edit, FF I'm working on, AXIS works great], the first one definitely needs some taming in my tests to keep osci-feedback and noise from 'getting loose'...just a little bit of revalueing the rolloff caps and that' basically it..
ANyway I was just floored by the floored setting, then turned the volume of the guitar down some, and heard what sounded like '.a guitar.'
Setup and dialed in, my faces sound PDgood, but for choosing what to put behind a switch, this cct. combo is certainly worth considering.
I looked in on it...it's actually a 2n2 from stage 1 FF's output to ground before volume, and a .001uf from Q1B to ground. A rolloff adjustment could be added in the form of a V/R pot [5k?] between the rolloff cap and ground.

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Face Off..?