Good replacement capacitors for "tropical fish" ca

[vanessa]

Hello everyone! I was wondering if there is a really good, readily available .22uf cap for my Clyde McCoy build I am doing. I have heard that "tropical fish" caps are the holy grail of caps for the Clyde, but they are too darn hard to find. I'm not sure what type of cap those were (metal film, etc.). Can anyone tell me what the modern equivalent to those would be, and be about the same size?

Thank you!

:oops:

[R.G.]

"Tropical Fish" caps are another one of those things like water-jacketed speaker cables that are hyped more than they help.

Historically, those caps were metalized mylar film caps. They dipped them into different colored epoxy to mark the values on them instead of printing on them.

**Exactly** the same performance can be had from ordinary "greenie" metalized mylar caps from Mouser or any other supplier. You can even do your own colored-epoxy dipping with boat-repair epoxy and colorants from the boat repair and outfitting store if you like the look. Performance will be the same.

I guess I need to start a rumor that it was really the old paper-phenolic board stock that made them sound so great...

[Ed G.]

The tropical fish caps, from where I read, evolved into the readily-available orange drop caps.
Like RG said, greenies will work the same.

[MartyB]

What value TF caps are you looking for?

MartyB

[Skreddy]

I'll sell ya one for $0.25 plus postage.  I've got a few .22's and some .1's too.

I find that greenies in some applications have a darker tone than some other types.  The tropical fish I have seem to impart a clear, rich, smooth tone; they are very nice IMO.  They don't really ADD much to a wah pedal, but seem to just impart a smoother flavor.  I tried some not knowing what to expect, and that's what they 'do' for me.  It's like I can hear more of the subtle nuances.  YMMV

[Hal]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3762516576&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcN__Stores

:-D :-D

[george]

I find that greenies in some applications have a darker tone than some other types.  The tropical fish I have seem to impart a clear, rich, smooth tone; they are very nice IMO.  They don't really ADD much to a wah pedal, but seem to just impart a smoother flavor.  I tried some not knowing what to expect, and that's what they 'do' for me.  It's like I can hear more of the subtle nuances.  YMMV

the subtleties you talk about could be due to the variation within tolerances of the different caps you're using?

[R.G.]

the subtleties you talk about could be due to the variation within tolerances of the different caps you're using?

... or micro-changes in air density...

[bwanasonic]

the subtleties you talk about could be due to the variation within tolerances of the different caps you're using?

I always tell myself I need to make some before and after soundclips when I start swapping parts, just to see if the difference translates with more objective criterion. Subjectively I usually hear a difference between cap types, but this is when I am the one changing the caps and does not consider actual changes in capacitance. I make no claims I could distinguish between a greenie and a tropical fish cap in a blind test. But I most likely would use tropical fish if I had them for the *fun* factor alone!

Kerry M

[zombiwoof]

I believe Pete Roberts in the U.K. (source of transistors for Fuzz Faces and other cool stuff) states that the company that now makes the polyester Orange Drops (225 series) are the same company that bought the company that made the Tropical Fish caps (a division of Mullard or something?), and that they are basically the same caps.  Not sure if it is true, but it's interesting!

Al

[R.G.]

I always tell myself I need to make some before and after soundclips when I start swapping parts, just to see if the difference translates with more objective criterion. Subjectively I usually hear a difference between cap types, but this is when I am the one changing the caps and does not consider actual changes in capacitance.

Good call. Try to eliminate your personal bias and having to remember tone if you can.

Human beings are funny. A story illustrates.
Back when efficiency experts were first getting popular, almost a century ago, a company hired one to perk up production. The expert did a little futzing about, and suggested that the company increase the light levels at works stations. Company did, and production went up. Ding!!

But then production sagged back down to the old normal level.

Company asks efficiency expert to have at it again. Expert suggests painting walls a light green. Ding!!

But then production sagged back down to the old normal level.

Company asks efficiency expert to have at it again. Expert suggests short rest breaks. Ding!!

But then production sagged back down to the old normal level.

Company asks efficiency expert to have at it again. Expert suggests better ventilation. Ding!!

But then production sagged back down to the old normal level.

Company and expert, not being fools, say "Wait a minute. What's going on here?" It tuens out that anything they changed made production go up, at least temporarily. The effect was temporary, but real. The workers denied it vigorously because they were not aware of it, but apparently any change that could be interpreted as helping them out made them actually work harder.

It's been fairly well researched that the same thing happens if you change audio equipment (among other things). If you make a change, it sounds better. You have to take special steps to keep yourself from knowing which sample is before and which is after to try to eliminate this bias.

[Skreddy]

Vanessa; email me at skreddy at happybob dot com and I will send you two .22uf (Cout and Cef), one .01uf (Cf), and one .1uf (Cin) tropical fish caps.

For free.  :lol:



I think .1uf is better for the input cap than .01, which rolls off too much bass IMO.  But then we can talk for days about wah mods, can't we?  Like lower Re1 just slightly from 470R, raise Rq a bit from 33k, etc.

[george]

Vanessa; email me at skreddy at happybob dot com and I will send you two .22uf (Cout and Cef), one .01uf (Cf), and one .1uf (Cin) tropical fish caps.

For free.  :lol:

send me some too!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I think .1uf is better for the input cap than .01, which rolls off too much bass IMO.  But then we can talk for days about wah mods, can't we?  Like lower Re1 just slightly from 470R, raise Rq a bit from 33k, etc.

i like Re1 of 150R - takes away the screech and you can use your wah with bridge as well as neck pickup!   Not thrilled with the "vocal" mod (increasing Rq) though (I've been busy modding a GCB-95 - true bypass, got rid of the input buffer as well and increased the input resistor to 90K.  Haven't changed the inductor - yet)

[george]

It tuens out that anything they changed made production go up, at least temporarily.

as the old saying goes (at least in this country) "A change is as good as a holiday" ....

[Skreddy]

Email me, George.  I've got a few.  

I take back that .1uf input cap idea, though.  That makes it a little TOO bassy.  Maybe cool for a bass-wah mod, though.  I'm back with the stock .01uf.

I just fixed up an older Jim Dunlop GCB95 I bought from a friend cheap last year.  It actually came stock with a stack-of-dimes inductor, and the circuitboard is identical to a vintage wah except for the modular wire connector.  Anyhow, the buddy of mine I bought it for complained that it was noisy.  Sure enough, yeah; it was.  Didn't see anything wrong, but I decided I'd upgrade the crap out of it and see what that did.  I began by removing the transistors in order to swap BC109C's in there.  Right away there was the culprit; the stock transistors were noisy.  But the effect was too quiet with the milder BC109B's (that I received instead of BC109C's that I ordered from Futurlec!), so I used a couple of 2N5088's instead (be aware that the pinout is different from the stock 5117's).  I reduced Re1 just a LITTLE to increase the drive a touch, and replaced Rin with a 33k carbon comp (I have a bunch of them handy).  Perfecto; unity gain and QUIET (maybe less noisy than bypass if that's possible--I'd already true-bypassed it so no tone-suckage).  And of course replaced the greenies with tropical fish.

"...So now I have a googlephonic stereo with a moonrock needle.  --Sounds like shit." --Steve Martin

[dadude]

I have heard that 225's are the same too. But for .22uf they are pretty big for a wah circuit. They are almost an inch by an inch and half an inch wide. They are cool for amps, but there are better if your looking for tone in a guitar amp.
I spoke to their main sales rep a few years ago and he told me that they were not interested in smaller applications anymore. That the market for these types of caps is small as most companies want smaller components for micro type boards. They are focusing their attention on larger applications to keep the boat afloat.
You might want to try some AVX caps. They sound clean and are cheap and easy to be had at mouser.