Replacing springs in a spring reverb with guitar strings

[Taylor]

This idea is inspired by the Bazantar, a five string doublebass with sympathetic strings like a sitar. I play cello and wanted to do the same thing to my cello, but somewhere the idea got mutated into something different.

So here it is: if I were to build some sort of frame that could support a number of strings (maybe not guitar strings) that ranged across several octaves, and connected a reverb transducer setup to the bridge, would the strings vibrate in sympathy to whatever was being input into it, or would it just vibrate all the strings indescriminately - leaving me with a terrible racket?

I understand this has more to do with acoustics than electronics, but I was hoping somebody around here knows enough about both to answer.

[Paul Marossy]

I think that it wouldn't sound good. Controlling each string is where the problems start. It would be kind of like the Sustainiac system where all 6 strings vibrate and you have to mute the ones you don't want to sustain...

[Peter Snowberg]

You would get one string to resonate at the fundamental, but you would also get vibration in everything with a harmonic relationship and some random movement in everything that wasn't related. I'm guessing that the accumulated "racket" from the notes not in use would be far far more than the drone induced from the driver coil.

It is a good idea though.

If you limited the number of strings and gave them an open tuning you would have something that droned along, but the tone might get to you after a while unless you could somehow fret the strings at new notes.

[Paul Marossy]

I actually re-read the original post.  I thought he meant driving the strings like a Sustainaic does. :oops:

I think Peter's reply is probably pretty close to what you would end up with... unless, perhaps, you instituted some kind of string damper system to give you more control over what was going on with those sympathetic strings or something to that effect.

[Ben N]

Sounds rather like the sympathetic strings on a Vinnie Bell Sitar or oin John McLaughlin's harp guitar.  Sounds like an interesting idea--all natural chorus.

Ben

[Paul Marossy]

Pat Metheny has a custom made 42-string guitar that sounds fantastic! Here's a some more info on it: http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om23350.html

[loscha]

Taylor, this is a great idea!

The strings would resonate in sympathy with the notes being played. You don't get a cacophony. I'm sure you have access to an acoustic piano. If it's an upright, take all the covers off, and wedge the sustain pedal open, so all the strings are resonating.
Yell into it, play your Cello into it. Make a few noises, then stop, and in the silence, you will hear the harmonic structure of what you've input echoing back at you.

You could set up a run of strings, and put some pickups onto it to convert the quiet sounds into something usable. Old strat pickips are pretty cheap. I got some here from my daddy's '72 strat you can have for just a few dollars each  :wink: [plus postage, of course]

I've done some experimentation with this sort of resonance, also in the math area a bit. Keep in touch!

[Paul Marossy]

The strings would resonate in sympathy with the notes being played. You don't get a cacophony.

Well, an acoustic piano is a different animal than what Taylor is proposing. As soon as you add the electronics, you are subject to the limitations of the pickups, the electronics, etc. I think it could be very problematic, IMO.

[bwanasonic]

The Ondes Martinot employed this idea:

http://www.obsolete.com/120_years/machines/martenot/

Kerry M

[squidsquad]

I always wanted to try a slinky....but the tank would have to be around 30 feet long hehee!  But did you ever press one end against your ear & ping it?  Mother of Pearl...it WOULD make a cool effect!

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I've heard of a 'musical performance' that consisted of shutting a hollow body guitar with a pickup in a box with a radio, and running the guitar pickp to the PA. It kind of picks up just the notes (and multiple harmonics) as they occur.
On the spring question, I believe the mode of vibration used is torsional (twisting) rather than lateral (like a guitar string) or in the direction of the spring (like a slinky tugged endwise). THe reason beign that the torsional vibration is slower. I once saw an early computer memory that consisted of a metal wire suspended above a 4x6 inch board that did this!!! inside an early desk calculator.
For thje worlds largest electronic slinky (which I have seen in action):
http://www.firstpr.com.au/slinky/

and don't forget the Electronic Peasant, a guy dear to the hearts of the diy community: http://www.electronicpeasant.com/projects/springs/springs.html

[squidsquad]

Well I'll be a monkey's uncle!  For the love of Mike...how the heck you know all this stuff Paul???  Pretty nifty.  Now I gotta think of somethin else.
How about a transducer & reciever on a Jamaican steel drum?  Don't tell me...
probobly been done...hehe!  
Ratz, I'm gettin way off topic.
Uhhh....maybe the tines from a music box...yeah!
It would fit into a stompbox!
Eurika!

[JimRayden]

Hmm... what about using a small speaker attached to a guitar string, making it vibrate and it would afterwards leave a certain note ringing that the "reverb string" is tuned to (picked up by a pickup). A foney reverb. Ok, that would propably sound awful as a reverb but would work as an effect otherwise.

I believe there is lots to discover in the area of reverb and physical guitar effects.

-----------
Jimbo

[Paul Marossy]

I believe there is lots to discover in the area of reverb and physical guitar effects

That's probably true. Conventional reverb is becoming somewhat of a lost art because most everything is digital these days.

I think the original idea can be done, but I don't see it as being simple to implement. I could be wrong, though - it may work fairly well if the drone strings really do vibrate in sympathy with the notes being played. But, that's where I think things could get mushy - when you're playing a piece of music, the notes are changing and so would the sympathetic vibrations of the drone strings. The notes will decay at different rates and some will ring longer than others and overlap. That's where I think it could get outta hand...  :wink:

[bwanasonic]

Another effect along these lines; several people have used *prepared* piano to resonate with a particualr chord, and then used a speaker inside the piano. Zappa recorded this effect as well as Wilco.

Kerry M

[JimRayden]

Continuing on the trails of piano, wouldn't it be cool to have a bass drum machinery (the thing that hits the drum) or some other construction to hit a bunch of pre-tuned strings. Then you could play rythm guitar with your foot (but only on one chord). Then put a pickup on the strings, amplify and take a solo while strumming with your foot.

To develop the idea, a guitar pick attached to the tip of a wah pedal kind of machinery, and having the strings horizontally so you could have more natural strum.

To develop even further, imagine 2-3 of these machines side by side, tuned to different chords, you could strum through whole songs.

And have roadies change the strum pedals after every song.

Ideas are getting dumber and dumber... but that's the main idea of inventig stuff, right?

---------------
Jimbo

[Peter Snowberg]

This thread reminds me of a local musician (Michael Masley sp?) who plays the hammer dulcimer, but with a set of little "bows" (violin, cello, etc) attached to the end of his fingers instead of the typical hammers.

That thing is VERY rich with harmonic interactions.