How to: BBD in series.

[strungout]

Oy.

I had some ideas I wanted to try so I built another Ultraflanger on my breadboard.

Longer slapback type delay: (per RG Keen's schematic) I disconnected R23, changed C10 to 10nF (eventually) and used a 100K pot as a var. resistance for R26. It definately works (tho long echos sounds sort of like a synth), but I'm getting a high pitch squeal. Putting a cap across pin 6/7 of U1b does reduce it, so I'm guessing some filtering is needed.

I read one way to get longer delays would be to put two bbd in series, without changing the clock rate. I'm not sure how to, tho. Do I just feed the output of the first one to the input of the next, and drive both from the same clock outputs (out of the 4049)?

The reason I'm messing around with this, is because the last mistake I fixed to complete my ultraflanger build was that R18 wasn't connected to the output of U5a, so, no voltage to control the 4046 VCO. Messing around with the pots tho was fun, I liked that "deep PVC well" type reverb, with alot of regen, I got some high pitch metallic plinks and clings feedback type of sounds. I like it. And it's cool with distortion, it really goes well with the mids cut. Of course there's some good, kind of annoying hiss going on, as in the ultraflanger at slapback settings.

If anyone has some links about BBDs, PLL clocks, especially 3007 and 4046 I'd appreciate it if you could post it here. I looked around but didn't find much that I could relate to stompboxes.

I had some other questions I think, but I forgot... :x

Ciao.

[puretube]

there is already a lot of that stuff posted somewhere...
(who is eager to find it first?  :wink: )

if you have 2 BBDs with 2 clocks, you get whine/squeal
if you don`t take appropiate measures/precautions;

if you take the same clock for both: no problems/double time;

[gez]

If anyone has some links about BBDs, PLL clocks, especially 3007 and 4046 I'd appreciate it if you could post it here.

The most useful info I've found about the oscillator in the 4046 is in Owen Bishop's 'Practical Electronic Design Data'.  Also good info in A Flind's 'Practical Oscillator Circuits'.  Both books published by Babani.  

The first book mentioned is out of print but you should be able to pick up cheap copies on Amazon.  Good books and easy to understand...

[puretube]

http://www.electronics-tutorials.com/devices/74hc4046.htm

[Mark Hammer]

There is a pdf at my site of material scanned from a Ray Marston book, concerning 4046 circuits.  You may need to right click and save it on your drive for viewing.

[strungout]

gez: thnx, but the reason I wanted web links is cause I'm poor as hell, and I doubt my municipal library has those :p But actually, can't hurt to go and check the book lists.

puretube: thanks, that page happened to be a nice step up. More info than the panasonic 4046 datasheet. And the 74HC4046 has alot more too!

mark: So, I'm poor AND blind...sigh. Your site I've visited alot for info on flangers (thnx for putting it up btw), hypertriangle clock article, anderton flanger project, all helped me get my head around this. Hadn't seen that 4046 circuits pdf.


I got some reading to do. Thnx again all.

[puretube]

there is already a lot of that stuff posted somewhere...
(who is eager to find it first?  :wink: )
if you have 2 BBDs with 2 clocks, you get whine/squeal
if you don`t take appropiate measures/precautions;
...

http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=25380
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=22869
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=23977
http://diystompboxes.com/sboxforum/viewtopic.php?t=23709

some answers in there, probably...

[StephenGiles]

I think you need a buffer amp between the 2 BBD chips. The old Yamaha E1010 used 4 MN3005 and was well bufferred between each one, but it only used one clock, with some 4049 bufferring to each BBD. I can't find the circuit I had to check at the moment. and there was an EH memory Man using 2 MN 3005.
Stephen

[puretube]

buffering not per se neccessary for the MN/BL chips (though it was for the old TCA/TDA/R chips...);

this dual-BBD schem about shows all your needs:
http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/ad3208_schematic.pdf

it about covers what is mentioned in some of the forum-linx,
and seems to be very close to one of the latest 8-BBD M*xon delay-pedals...

:wink:

[strungout]

Oy.

puretube: Thnx for more good info! Especially that schematic, a picture is worth a thousand words? hehe


Basically, I'm using the ultraflanger on my breadboard as my starting point, which has the 4049 buffered clock outputs, I'll mess the hell out of it and try anything I can think of fun  

Ciao.

[strungout]

Oy.

Well, I finally switched to using the small clone from tonepad to mess around with. I thought the 4047 would be much simpler to deal with (somehow the wiper of a pot feeding pin 9 of the 4046 wasn't doing anything, but the same pot at pin 3 of the 4047 did: delay control from short and silent to long and nasty).

So, I put the two mn3007 exactly the same way as they are wired inthe ad3208 schemo. I aslo had fun adding some feedback paths around the BBDs, both outputs back to the 1rst one's input. Nice amount of repeats, but they're more easily heard at low (noisy) delays, and they're still kinda faint. Might be a good idea to buffer of even amplify the loops?Actually, I don't really mind how degraded the signal gets at low delays, it's got that ring mod sound, but there's still that high pitch squeal I haven't gotten rid of.

I'm curious as to how the chorus would sound with all those repeats...

Fun stuff.

Lesson: find chips with more stages, get companders. :p

Ciao.

[puretube]

err, my 4046 pin9s work...  :?: