very strange things about the CD4013

[Brian Marshall]

so i was playing arround with a cd4013 the last couple days.

some things that i noticed that are very wierd.  it seems to work with with no ground regrence on the negative power supply... well sort of work... very wierd... ive been playing arround with this thing and getting some very wierd results, especially when starved.

[davebungo]

If you don't connect the VDD and GND pins, it is hardly surprising that you are getting wierd results.  Connect the power supply pins and you will get predictable results, as specified in the product datasheet.

[Brian Marshall]

If you don't connect the VDD and GND pins, it is hardly surprising that you are getting wierd results.  Connect the power supply pins and you will get predictable results, as specified in the product datasheet.

yeah i did that too, but that wasnt really my point... my point was that it will do wierd stuff with virtually, or completely unpowered


I understand its function as a counter, at least as a logic diagram.

the hard part is getting rid of all the harmonic content for an octave down... and yes i am using hysteresis, but on the lower notes it doesnt track as well as the higher ones.


BUT none of that was really my point.  my point was that there may be some other use for it.

[davebungo]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a 4013 without power.  If you can find an application then good luck to you and let us know what it is.  Next you'll be telling us that we should plug all our effects pedals in backwards like walters :?

[Vsat]

CMOS can actually operate (altho not normally) without having pin 14 connected to the supply... the chips take very little current, and can receive the power they require through the input pins. App-notes often mention this in debugging CMOS circuits... if something weird is happening, check that the supply voltages are present on the Vdd and Vss pins.
Cheers, Mike

[Brian Marshall]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a 4013 without power.  If you can find an application then good luck to you and let us know what it is.  Next you'll be telling us that we should plug all our effects pedals in backwards like walters :?

well one of the results i was getting was a fairly low (but in the audio range) oscilator that was dependant on dynamics... the harder you play the higher the pitch goes.  maybe, if tuned correctly that could be used for an envelope ring mod, or some kind of variable filter....

anyways... the ONLY REASON I POSTED THIS WAS BECAUSE I THOUGTH OTHERS MIGHT FIND IT INTERESTING.  I wasnt looking for an answer to a question, just throwing out an idea for experimentation.  I am not telling anyone to do anything... you can do with this information what you wish.  If no one ever experimented i suppose we'd all still be living in caves, and waiting for the next lightning strike to make fire to keep us warm.

[ExpAnonColin]

Passive octave down, here I come!  

-Colin

[puretube]

if I wire the 4013 backwards, do I get a frequency-doubler?  :wink:  :lol:

[Brian Marshall]

if I wire the 4013 backwards, do I get a frequency-doubler?  :wink:  :lol:

that makes me wonder if you could make an octave up with it...  you might be able to use one side as and sort of clock, but used the inverted output and send that to the other flip flop and a pulse generated from the non inverted wave....

hmmmm maybe it could work... that would be wierd to make an octave up from a flip flop.

[puretube]

sorry for the confusion: I tried to make a walterish inspired joke - shame on me...  :oops:

[Brian Marshall]

i got the joke... it just got me thinking

[puretube]

apropos thinking: if you put a 4013 in the feedback-loop of a PLL (4046),
you actually do get freq.-doubling...

[Paul Perry (Frostwave)]

I had some strange behavior from a cmos logic chip once, the turned pin socket happened to have a bizzare flaw, the top part of the inside of pin16 (the power pin) was missing, so the leg just floated in air (and from under the PCB, it looked like power was going to the chip. And whenever one of the other pins was connected to +5 or so, enough current leaked back to make the chip functions work..a little. Hard one to debug :oops:
The moral is, when you look at a logic diagram, you don't see the stuff under the hood. Moreover, different manufacturers may have different stuff inside.
No reason why someone shouldn't find something useful this way, but don't expect it to work the same with a different manufcturer!!

[StephenGiles]

It cannot be ethical to connect up a 4013 incorrectly :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Stephen

[davebungo]

I can't imagine why anyone would want to use a 4013 without power.  If you can find an application then good luck to you and let us know what it is.  Next you'll be telling us that we should plug all our effects pedals in backwards like walters :?

well one of the results i was getting was a fairly low (but in the audio range) oscilator that was dependant on dynamics... the harder you play the higher the pitch goes.  maybe, if tuned correctly that could be used for an envelope ring mod, or some kind of variable filter....

anyways... the ONLY REASON I POSTED THIS WAS BECAUSE I THOUGTH OTHERS MIGHT FIND IT INTERESTING.  I wasnt looking for an answer to a question, just throwing out an idea for experimentation.  I am not telling anyone to do anything... you can do with this information what you wish.  If no one ever experimented i suppose we'd all still be living in caves, and waiting for the next lightning strike to make fire to keep us warm.

My apologies, Brian.  All I can say is that I was having a hard time with walters (including him pestering me with private messages) and he used up all my good will. :oops:

[puretube]

...I was having a hard time with W... (including... private messages) ...

you too?

good to know that the 4013 in fact really has been designed intended to divide

FWIW: it`s really funny, what kind of results one can get with "improperly"
(="unethically")  wired/miswired C-series chips...

[Brian Marshall]

My apologies, Brian.  All I can say is that I was having a hard time with walters (including him pestering me with private messages) and he used up all my good will. :oops:[/quote]

Yeah, what is up with that guy...

I havent gotten any pm's from him... seems like either really curious, or a troll.