Does anyone here build clones from schematics to sell?

[Unbeliever]

Do you have a schematic for the Foot Pig? The problem is, even if you do have a schematic and get it built, it won't sound the same as the original because it won't have 'Way Huge' printed on it. Besides, there's a bazillion other fuzz pedals around already .... one of these is sure to be very similar, if not exactly the same, as the Foot Pig, I imagine. It's just a matter of finding the sound you like.

[petemoore]

  It's all finite. Newb's have a much smaller chance at novel circuit design...I mean really novel, like when the FF was unlike anything else at the time.
  Once You've been around the block a few times and have a pile of 100 boards that are scrapped, boards that were once...
  OA FBL Clippers
  Gain Stages of every type
  Diode to ground Clippers
  BMP types
  CMOS Types
  Basically having tried the tried, tested methods, and a bunch plus a couple 'offshoots' designs and tweeks, it all starts looking like one thing or the other that someone in a past generation 'came up with'...no...invented...no...DISCOVERED. These electrical properties were in place before the word electrical was invented, that others don't know it IMO is what makes it possible for individuals to stake out territories...which, of course can be retreaded over by other individuals...simply will be..because these designs of discovery happen to be right between points A and B, or...must be traversed in order to Fuzz or OD a guitar sound.
  I can see paying someone for their time and study and work that discoveries demand, but claiming territories as off limits that happen to have 'the road much traveled' running straight through them is...silly.
  I've got some designs based on discovery too, pretty simple and effective, and of course involve gain stages and well traveled circuit/circuit fragments.
   With all the available recipe's, it's easy to design a meal, all you have to do is figure out what kind of meat you like, use Idaho potatoes or rice, then decide how many side dishes you want it to have. You can even make an Omelette and call it Lasagna.

[Rambo66]

"Aloha All,
Like I’ve said before… I have no problem if you reverse engineer and create YOUR OWN schematic and PCB… But…
Please cease and desist the distribution of Way Huge Electronics copyrighted material.
Copyright laws protect the PCB layout that has been posted (didn’t you see the “C”?). Please remove the Swollen Pickle PCB layout (trace side) from the site post haste.
Thank you.
RG you can post a parts list but please … (everyone)… refrain from using my trademarked material and copyrighted material without any disclaimer that say it does not belong to you. Posting copies of a PCB layout (that is protected) without written consent is illegal.
You guys need to be more careful. 
-Mr. Huge"

[markm]

Mr. Huge was just requesting that his LAYOUT be removed from said website.
I can see how the layout could be copyrighted. The circuit however is not.
Just make a new layout and voila, your in "business" so to speak.
Case in point......Keeley Compressor - Java Boost - Fullboost etc.
Some different tweaks help too and most of the time, builders will
modify their builds from the originals to suit their tastes or perhaps to improve the device.
It's not unfair nor unheard of at all.

[Rambo66]

Yeah I know, I got what he was saying. This is the second time I've been misunderstood regarding Mr. Huge and what he said.

I never said one thing about it being unfair.

At least I think you were refering to me. Anyway.

Anyone got a Foot Pig schematic?

[Rambo66]

Actually this is the post I meant to post

"I’ve posted before about Way Huge Electronics schematics, but here it goes again.
I don’t give out Way Huge schematics, period (I never have and never will). That’s my choice. Just because Way Huge is not building pedals any more doesn’t mean that the information is not valuable and should be given out freely. Furthermore, I just don’t give out Way Huge Electronics intellectual property. Any Way Huge IP that has been given out was done under an NDA. Information isn’t always free.  Now when some of you DIY’er go into business building pedals for a living you may change your mind about sharing all your knowledge and information.

However, I don’t have a problem with anyone reverse engineering a Way Huge pedal drawing a schematic and posting it. That is perfectly legal (I should know I have a lawyer in my house). I’m just not going to hand it to you on a platter. The Internet didn’t have all these helpful sites on pedal building and schematics when I started. I learned the old fashioned way. I reverse engineered pedals, I became friends with repair guys and techs that built pedals for large companies, and I read a lot of books!
Anyways, I have my reasons for not giving out Way Huge schematics and that’s that. I’m more than happy to help people with their DIY projects and I have many times in the past.
I’ve posted a number of highly prized schematics from my gigantic pedal schematic archive (Roland Phase 5, Jetphaser, TC Distortion, etc…)"

[cd]

The bottom line is, if you want to participate in the spirit of this board, you can learn by reading the FAQ, the Technology of the Fuzz Face article at Geofex, and avail yourself of the multitude of DIY part sources - get some Ge transistors from Small Bear and work up your own Fuzz Face that works and sounds best to YOU.  A rare pedal name isn't a magic bullet for great tone.

That is, if you're truly interested in DIY, and not tracking down some elusive schematic for other, more controversial reasons.  If all you want is a great sounding fuzz with a tone control on the cheap (don't take that personally - most musicians are poor and cheap, including myself), and can't be bothered to learn (or if all this is way over your head), you might as well troll eBay.  There are dozens of people selling handmade pedals there that will fit what you need.

[markm]

Yeah I know, I got what he was saying. This is the second time I've been misunderstood regarding Mr. Huge and what he said.

I never said one thing about it being unfair.

At least I think you were refering to me. Anyway.

Anyone got a Foot Pig schematic?

No.
I wasn't refferring to you at all.....
I was just making a general observation of Mr. Huge's statement.
I have to back up Mr. Huge on the fact he is VERY helpful with assistance.
He offered up some info to me when I was building my Red Llama and it proved helpful to me.
I can't however help with the shem you're looking for either.......sorry.
Good luck in your search.
   MarkM

[Rambo66]

controversial reasons

What would they be? I simply love the sound clips I heard of the Foot Pig and thought this may be a good place to either a) find the schematic and learn to build one or b) Contact someone here about building the pedal for me.

I don't believe there is anything controversial about that. What's the difference between trying to build a Fuzz Face or a Big Muff Pi or a Foot Pig?

A rare pedal name isn't a magic bullet for great tone.

I am well aware of that, thanks. I have been playing guitar and getting great tone for many, many years. The magic bullet for getting great tone are your hands, and ears and creativity etc.....

work up your own Fuzz Face that works and sounds best to YOU

Well, the Foot Pig sounds good to me, why shouldn't I try and track down the schematic? That's what people do here. I've read numerous posts about people building the Way Huge Swollen Pickle & Red Llama, so why not the Foot Pig?

I want to participate in  the spirit of this board. I have never built anything electronic and only now, after years of playing is this looking attractive to me. I don't however want to be someone's punching bag because they've been on this board longer than I have.

you might as well troll eBay.  There are dozens of people selling handmade pedals there that will fit what you need.

For your information I have already received pm's from people that are willing to build me something, I appreciate that. That's what I feel goes along with the spirit of this forum.

[Unbeliever]

For your information I have already received pm's from people that are willing to build me something, I appreciate that. That's what I feel goes along with the spirit of this forum.

Actually, I thought the 'spirit of the forum' was DIY, or helping others to DIY. Anyways, without a schematic ....  ... and even with a schematic, unless it notes what kind of caps are used in the circuit for 'tone' it may well not 'sound' the same.

[soggybag]

I would take a guess that the foot Pig was based on the EH Hogs foot? I think many of the Way Huge Pedals were based on earlier designs.

[Fernando Aguirre]

Every now and then, the ethics & moral related to cloning pedals is discussed here, and i always have the same feeling and i would like to give my opinion about this.
Maybe the same thing was discussed here before, but i always relate pedals with guitars, as designer items, as pieces that were designed, ingeniered, invented, etc by very skilled, intelligent, vanguardist guys (Leo Fender comes to my mind).

Every day there is a new guy making strats, high quality strats, with minimal mods, and a very important  change that leaves them without any legal issues, the headstock shape.

It looks like the only patented thing is the headstock shape. If they use the fender shape, they are thieves, copy makers.
If they use their own headstock shape, they are called innovators, creators, the hot new thing.
They basically make the same strat fender did, maybe with better hardware, figured woods, inlays and stuff, but they are only modding the original patented design.

I am not saying it is correct, but what is the difference between a guy that gets and schematic, make some mods, build the pedal and sell it, i mean, what is the difference between him and Tom Anderson, John Suhr, Roger Sadowsky, that basically do the same with guitars. And they always make reference to Fender.
I only hear good things and nice words about these builders, but it is very discussed the ethics of the people that do the same with pedals.
I dont like the people that clone pedals and try to sell them as theur OWN design, but if they make clear to the buyer that they are only making variations of circuits made by other people, and name the disgner, i dont see anything wrong. As i dont see anything wrong with Tom Anderson guitars.

Sorry for my english.
Please feel free to let me know that i am an stupid and i sholud be sleeping by now.

Fer

[tcobretti]

The only Way Huge Layout/schematic I have seen here is the Red Llama.  If anybody has more, I'd like to see them myself.  Anybody?

[wampcat1]

Every now and then, the ethics & moral related to cloning pedals is discussed here, and i always have the same feeling and i would like to give my opinion about this.
Maybe the same thing was discussed here before, but i always relate pedals with guitars, as designer items, as pieces that were designed, ingeniered, invented, etc by very skilled, intelligent, vanguardist guys (Leo Fender comes to my mind).

Every day there is a new guy making strats, high quality strats, with minimal mods, and a very important  change that leaves them without any legal issues, the headstock shape.

It looks like the only patented thing is the headstock shape. If they use the fender shape, they are thieves, copy makers.
If they use their own headstock shape, they are called innovators, creators, the hot new thing.
They basically make the same strat fender did, maybe with better hardware, figured woods, inlays and stuff, but they are only modding the original patented design.

I am not saying it is correct, but what is the difference between a guy that gets and schematic, make some mods, build the pedal and sell it, i mean, what is the difference between him and Tom Anderson, John Suhr, Roger Sadowsky, that basically do the same with guitars. And they always make reference to Fender.
I only hear good things and nice words about these builders, but it is very discussed the ethics of the people that do the same with pedals.
I dont like the people that clone pedals and try to sell them as theur OWN design, but if they make clear to the buyer that they are only making variations of circuits made by other people, and name the disgner, i dont see anything wrong. As i dont see anything wrong with Tom Anderson guitars.

Sorry for my english.
Please feel free to let me know that i am an stupid and i sholud be sleeping by now.

Fer

Well...let's be honest. If pedal builders did that then 95% of them would say: MXR distortion plus/tubescreamer clone, rangemaster/fuzzface/tonebender/etc clone.

You see where I'm going....it's a paradigm thing. If you make a different shaped guitar...say a bc rich shaped...you lose alot of potential customers because they are used to seeing and like the plain old strat look and feel. They may not realize it but they do. That is why so many builders use the tubescreamer as their basic overdrive design...so many people are used to it and like the basic sound and once modified it fits their needs. However, through in a different design and many of the people who buy $300 pedals won't like something different, even if they don't realize and/or admit it.

Just a perspective from someone on the other end.

bw

[RedHouse]

Well......I guess you could contend that the end user was buying the parts and contracting you to assemble said parts into a working unit.....   

That's EXACTLY what I do, and I get a simple written agreement from the customer.

I operate kind of like those custom car/bike guy's, they build on a commision basis, using much of others company's products, and build many parts that were functionally designed by others. They only say "Custom built by so-n-so" they don't say they invented it, or designed it etc.

I build-for-money on a basis like that. I don't say I designed pieces I didn't design, I often put existing devices into large multi-unit boards (ala Pete Cornish) and often build work-alike boards to fit into them. I don't build-and-sell as a product, I build and sell as a service, the customer sources many of thier own preffered parts (when it comes to Mouser/DigiKey, I order on their behalf) and I recommend TonePad and GGG and folks here all the time when a customer is open-minded about sourcing a circuit, and if they want one built I build it for them, it's their baby just as if they built it themselves, somebody wan't to sue somebody it better be them as they signed a responsibility agreement for service not products.

This goes beyond stompboxes for me, I often build clone boards of other gear most of which is unavailable to my people. In fact I just build a few dozen mic-preamp boards for a friend who has a M72 32 channel mixer.

I see custom effects in the same light as those custom car/bike shops, we build to order sourcing the needs of the customer (buyer) who knows that the unit built is in fact a custom unit and may contain parts of other peoples products and that's fine with them, in fact ...that is what they want.

I'm just a hired gun.
(soldering gun that is)



BTW the last post about headstock shapes is a Trademark issue not a patent, a trademark is a recognisable shape or graphic that customers recognise, a patent is for idea's such as a circuit design, and a copyright is for artwork such as a schematic or PCB design.

If you wan't to build your own stuff (and claim it's your own) you need to draw your own non-patented circuit schematic, create your own non-copyrighted PCB art, and package in non-trademarked packaging. Then you stand a chance in court.

[RedHouse]

BTW a "layout" is not Patentable, Copyrightable or Trademarkable. It is simply an arrangement of parts according to the law.

I looked into it a long time ago when I had to build some NEVE BA283 output modules. They HAD to have the same layout to fit into the gear as they ride on a backplane (motherboard) and so on the advice of my lawyer I made my own PCB art (circuit traces) drew my own schematic of the module so I was technically not stealing their work, or misrepresenting my work.

There is another HUGE area that comes into play when one discusses "aftermarket" supplyers (like people here who build and sell stiff), the auto parts industry has set a long established precidence in things like this (cloning parts, or in our case circuits).

Take for instance the case of Echlin who makes electrical parts for NAPA, they make a windshield wiper switch for say a Ford which has delay timer circuit in it. They don't have to licence it from Ford because they only say it "fits" the ford, it's not a Ford part, they make no claim of it being a genuine Ford part, the circuit may be EXACTLY the same but it's not a Ford part and Ford cannot sue them for manufacturing and selling the part.

[petemoore]

  Fuzzes are like dogs.
 All dogs have four legs, and two eyes, and alot of other common features.
 All Fuzzes .. Fuzz and boost.
 If you want Hard Distortion start with a diode to ground clipper like DIST+.
 IF you want muffy Dist try a BMP.
 FF is what I use with Tube Amp Compliment.
 TS is softer edged 'Overdrive'
 There are countless derivitave circuits...and CMOS.
 The Dist pedal itself is part of a larger picture [it won't sound by itself], including amp, guitar, speakers, whatever else is in the signal chain...
 The System COULD be looked at 'forewards'...building it up starting at the speaker/cab is...more expensive up front...and what I recommend for anyone building up a system that can get great Fuzz
 Once all the other ducks are sorta in place, any Distortion you choose...will distort...and can be tuned/altered/added to/replaced by something you like better...
 The name on a dirtbox...if it's working perfectly for you...is what you need.
 Trying different circuit topologies [dist+, TS, BMP, FF], finding one that's in the ballpark for the tones you want...
 All of these circuits 'work', and [in the absence of amazingly pure dumb luck] will work better for you, your guitar[s, and amp[s, after having been tweeked to your/their likings.
 

[Gus]

Fernando Aguirre

  Headstock is not a patent but a trademark with fender,  If it was a design patent it would be past the 17 year protection IIRC

same thing with Neumann microphones neumann has a trademark on the grill design IIRC

Why is this important

A trademark can be good for as long as you keep it IIRC

A patent has a life span of 17 years IIRC

R.G , Jack ?

[petemoore]

  "I dont like the people that clone pedals and try to sell them as theur OWN design".
   "but if they make clear to the buyer that they are only making variations of circuits made by other people, and name the disgner, i dont see anything wrong.".
  I haven't seen anything that isn't a derivitave or variation of a circuit made by other people in a long time, I think it's a fair statement that we can assume there is something familiar in any of the 'new designs' we're seeing...iow, when I see 'new' I think 'improved' as opposed to 'completely novel'.
  I can look at just about any schematic [actually I'll make an exception for the LXS amp simulator with the many filters...even though it too is a combination of circuit fragments...not thrown together, I'm certain it took some doinng to get that 'sound in a schematic' written], gain stages, clipping stages, tone controls/filtering...endless combinations...but generally following very well known, well worn paths which I'm pretty familiar with. I just read right past 'new design' mostly.