Building my dream pedal hooking up multiple expression type effects???

[DEZREJECT]

hey i have a vox v848 reissue.. its cool and ill keep it for sentimental value.. but damn the play on it sucks.. if u like it ur crazy haha... anyways i found an old morley optical type volume/wah... that circuits pretty bad ass.. but its not my style... too much that could go bad especially in a gigging metal band enviroment... so i am starting out with the case from the morley and building my dream pedal... and with this case honestly the mechanical "how the fu..." i have pretty well figured out... thats not the problem...

my intial ideas for the pedal are basically a 9v battery/ dc'd in true bypass typical run of the mill wah...right? hell no im way too difficult for that!!! lol my goal is to have a volume pedal (yeah easy take out hte wah coloring cap...no not like that.. straight input, pot, output.. maybe a buffer in there somewhere) i dont nessecarely need the schematics for the parts of this.. ill be using a tychobrahe parachute clone, volume, wah, and dual wah (wah-antiwah (see geofex technology of wahs)), maybe a rotovibe type thing... (leslie al around the room style deal... yeah)  and im considering maybe something like trying to recreate  a flanger on a manual expression pedal control.. all within the housing... sooo what i need from yall

i dont really need schematics.. if you have ideas.. (hey ull have a loss of volume use a buffer like this) that'd be cool... or hey this wah worked well for me try it... whatever... thats fine but the BIGGGGGG problem is switching...

the parachute uses two pots for its "wah" ing control... the wah uses one, the volume one, the flange one, the dual wah two... rotovibing.... all that... my dream idea would be to use a big type rotary switch on the side that would just swithc the input and output into those different circuits... yeah a great idea huh!? perfect for gigging.. yep you all owe me props hahhahha... not to be %^&*y.. but as long as this is do-able it seems like the PERFECT gigging pedal... now i have schems for multiple effects in one box.. like daisy chaining, series, parallel, all that but this is much more beyond that... i think it would be possible as long as i can find the right switching deal... like

guitar in > switching deal to options 1. volume 2. panning rotovibe 3. wah 4. wah antiwah 5. parachute 6. flange > out

maybe a buffer before and after the "effect" part... with a little trim pot to adjust volume loss and such... maybe a lil booster like the micro ampor LPB2 before it built in to get a nice beefed out signal.... anyone know anything about the boost kick in switch on the Dimebag signature wah? if all goes well id probably end up selling a few of these... etched boards, finished, everything just plug it in and amaze ur friends! lol... 


so any ideas on switching? im sure there has to be a way... it might be scary and have some digital aspect with big IC's and relays and such... but you know in the end having ONE pedal on my board that feels just right, has full rotation of the pots, has perfect action.. is just right.. that would all be worth it... so cmon guys help me not have to bring a 6 ft. pedal board to rock your town !!

thanks in advance

dezzzzz

[petemoore]

so any ideas on switching?
  A drawn schematic or 'block diagram' [just shows 'in/out' and the block can be whatever circuit], showing the switching suggestions is a great place to start figureing out and also lends itself to informing anyone with suggestions what the basic configuration would be.
  Pots with three connections might require thinking about how that could be reduced to 2 connections, or if you can get a 3P2T or some type of applicable switching arrangement to allow the use of the same 'treadled pot' for some of the purposes desired...ie disconnecting all three potlugs from say...the wah circuit and having them connected as volume, all with the correct range and taper, without other problems.
   I think it can be done, but it , may take some 'ferreting out' of bugs to get the treadle movement/pot range and taper to be optimized for each purpose.

[DEZREJECT]

yeah thats basically what i was thinking maybe something on a rotary switch... theres a schematic on but lately what i've been looking at is the original circuit... anyone ever open up one of the mofos? its insane.. its ALL based on light.... in mine there were two infra-red LEDs, and then two little photo-reciever cell things (this was a volume/ wah so from my "hmm that there must be a" diagnosys, the signal was switched between these two circuits.. but think about it... that antiwah/wah, and the parachute dual pot thing.. theyd both be a looot easier...)... now this has got me thinking.. although i originally bought this to make it work off pot and not the optical thing (hehe i said work off pot... shutup) looking at switching it around although i think it IS doable.. the optical thing might be a little easier... anyone understand how the optical thing works? i mean i understand its letting less and more light thru (theres this little strip thing that goes up and down with the foot pedal) i understand how it MECHANICALLY works... but how are they wiring that up so that it works like the pot of a wah? all schematics for pretty much all morley pedals can be found on their website if you are as curiouse as I....http://www.morleypedals.com/

so is there anyway to just sub out this little optical variable resistor deal?

a while back i was working on a voltage controller for a multi color LED deal on my car... it worked, and it was with a digital potentiometer... u use a lil switch relaying deal and its like the volume buttons on a TV.. up down up down up down... for that you just substituted this "mini circuit" in for the pot, and had to hook up a power and ground source... so if this idea would work... you could just send the guitar signal to the different little circiuts, volume, rotovibe pan deal, wah, wahanti wah, parachute... and in my mind you could just use two LEDs and two photo cell things... and then the switching would be like a rotatary switch choosing between which circuit the "light variable resister" would be affecting.. no?

the other thing is now im starting to look at tooling the case for the mechanical.... does anyone have a colorsound wah? could someone take pictures of the connections from the pedal to the potentiometer? i know it works on a linkage style deal.... around pivots... while theres the vox/crybaby gear set up... although i like the gear idea as far as being "ideal" in that its consistant and should last a pretty god time.... the problem is ofcourse you cant get through the entire Pot's rotation.. and thus your pedal is a waste of time because its not the full use of the sweep circuit....

[DEZREJECT]

okay ive been sitting here looking at my morley shell thinking how the hell can i make this all mechanically work... space isnt too much of an issue as far as boards.. using PCBs, the smallest possible pots... nothing really should be too hard except the ofcourse obviouse issue of controlling the "variable resistance" needed in all the circuits... so if u look on the post near this about the best DIY wah... the man behind zvex says photo resistors are good to use... and thats what the morley originally had.. from what i get of it... its basically the same thing as a pot... just a resistor that you can vary how much resistance it is... but it is varied by how much light it gets... so you hook up a little piece of whatever in the shape of a v or other maybe experimenting could  come in later... to find the best "sweep" rate for control... i wish i had the original board to post a pic of it.. does anyone else have one? its a great idea... anyways at the heel part of the pedal.. there was a bolt that goes thru.. and holds onto this little L shaped cardboard deal.. with two V's on it.. one for volume one for wah... so in essence i could have say 5... and have custom sweeps and all for each pedal... that could be handy... but thats not hte issue the issue at hand is this

i would rather use a pot and be old school... maybe something like the wahs with the little linkages to the pot.... this would be the only feasible way to use a pot because of how shallow the base part of the pedal (where the guts go) is... so if you used say just a vox gear deal, it would hit the bottom of the pedal unless u got it just damn right and call me lazy but that seems like wayyyyy to much work... if you look at the wah from sratch page above.. i tihnk that is why he had his fulcrum in the center originally... so my choices are a pot controllde my linkages... or a photoresistor type deal... mimicing the stock set up but much more thought out and many more options...

to be honest the whole photo resistor tihng intimidates me.. mainly im scared ill be jamming at a show nad then this little POS stupid cardboard or aluminum L thign will snap or bend wrong... i mean basically you make a little L thing that slides in and out of the PCB affecting how much light hits that photoresistor... as far as that its  aperfecet idea... no pot to wear out... just look at morleys ads for the "pretty" way of saying why ou should buy theres and use the optical thing....

as far as wah circuits honestly im thinking im just gunna get every part i can find wah wise and make as many as possible and trythem all out and mix and match and mod... but the thing that im not perfectly clear on is a photoresister based circuit...

what i think is this..
i think it works by say when you turn the effect on in addition to un-bypassing the board (un bypassing haha).. it turns on an infra red LED and then the photo resister is wire just like a resister in the place of the wah pot... only 2 leads, just in and out.. no polarity i think.... and then you vary the amount of light and that would be like turning the knob.. kind of like if you solder the center lug of a pot to one of the other lugs.. its just a variable resistor.. i think that is how this works.... am i right?

dont get me wrong im sure this optical thing can be done good... use like some aluminum.. cover it in like rubberized paint (black) to limit light reflections.. keep it all just through the V deal.... or maybe some acrylic or something.. it has to be strong enough to be stomping on and not bend.. maybe acrylic coverde in like black ducttape or something but you get the point.. theres ways to do it...

im thinking then if i do this opitcal circuitry... ill probably use the stock position for the circuit... see the only thing is if you move it more towards the toe you would theoretically have more control.. and my goal here is to get the full sweep... but the thing is with the photoresister the full sweep depends on the V as far as how thin it gets and then to how thick.. and ofcourse there will be a limit to both as to when it only needs o be get so thin or so thick.. ill have to toy with that... but the thing is the longer that strip is id think it would be better... then again the pedal having the fulcrum where it is.. the way the pedal works is set already you know? so i guess moving it say even to the all forward toe side, yeah youd have 3 inches to work with (pretend case depth isnt an issue for this) but the thing is you still have the original amount of control over the pedal... and with the right spring set up, just like a throttle linkage on a carbeurator on a car... you could make it so you could be as detailed as you wanted... so im thinking putting it at heel or toe wouldnt really matter much.. heel would be safer, and easier... its less exposed and already was done so i have somethign to replicate with some modification...



any ideas all?>

[DEZREJECT]

also one thing.. in reply above... you are right the taper needs to be diff for each circuit.. i mean to a point you could add resistors to make it work.. but it wouldnt be complete control say the wah needs a 100K, the volume needs 200k, and the flange needs 500K... just an example you could put another resistor with the volume.. add 100k and proving what you said... ud only have half the control then... this makes the opitcal thing seem perfect... i need to research up these photoresistors and see if they just come if different ohmages or if its something you set up... like you hook a 1meg resistor to it and as far as how much light gets thru it it gets that much resistance... ill have to see....

[petemoore]

  Photoresistor or 'opto' resistor is a variable resistor.
  I would break down and categorize questions into separate topics.
  Photoresistor used as 3 lug volume...with 2 photoresistors a simulation of volume control can be made...I've never done it, don't trust that it'll 'do' exactly what you want or is needed, I'm suggesting you ask for the link to photoresistor or google...there's a page explaining them quite in-depth, showing varied applications.
  As far as the switching and figuring out pot values and tapers...that's the 'work'...if you can find circuits that have a common value/taper of pot for the functions you want to have them vary, this would cut out some of the value/tapering resistors work, otherwise perhaps some kinda switch could be used [if there is such a thing] to bypass the circuit, and change a pots resistance simultaneously...
  One effect at a time...if you're sharing that pot...conflicts like these are bound to the journey of multi-effect pot sharing, and bypass, and whatever else is needed for the switching operation proposed [it does help to get a schematic just to look at, and it is essential for effecient 'reading' of what you've got or intend to have.

[DEZREJECT]

yeah i see what ur saying and dont get me wrong im not trying to be a dick and jts be argumentative... but i know it can be done because thats all morley pedals are is opitcal....im still mid-reasearch... my thing is though if you look at what a pot does... it sends the center lug to either more to the 1st or 3rd lug.... thats all it really does... but as far as how a wah works i dont see it as much as say like a tone pot, the tone pot is say sending the input signal to either more to the left running in more of the bass circuit, or more to the right for more trebel... both of those are connected to the ouput then onto the next stage of the effect

for a wah isnt the pot more or less sending signal through the circuit more like almost a variable resistor?

i mean if it was in fact a circuit that sent the input up then theres two ways it can go... either to the wahhhhhhh or the haaaaaawww direction... then yeah the optical thing would be a bitch because then you'd have to redesign the contol part of the circuit and possibly even the modulation part to adapt to just having a "be affected by how much resistance" type deal going on

[DEZREJECT]

the other option since the rack vox crybaby style wouldnt fit... would be this

http://www.diyguitarist.com/Images/ColorsoundWah2.jpg
http://www.diyguitarist.com/Images/ColorsoundWah1.jpg

but that seems like it could be overly difficult designing a cam style linkage.... i try to look to my automotive background for help here.. i had to make a custom bracket and linkage deal on my transmission for the custom racing selector i put in my old camaro... now i know this is a long stretch.. but basically its like the same thing... minus rotating into gears... theres still that rotation... maybe something liek that would work? or try to tool up some linkage... id really like to see a colorsound in person and play with the linkage... see where they put pivots... the biggest problem about this whole thing is the space.. thats the only reason why the optical deal seems like the must be choice... it could be super lo pro.. yeah a pot would have switching issues and as long as i worked out hte circuit the right way with opticals and say multiple opto resistors... say 5 even... the point is it would be probably easier to get thta to work out... vs getting two pots hooked up in there..  let alone if switching becomes an issue and its like okay now i gotta get sya 4 pots in there all linked to the pedal.. thatd be insane lol.. 

ive been talking to a friend about looking into a digital way out too... maybe some kind of adjustable pot style deal... like that optical thing it could make 5 different resistances off of one sensor or something? i dont know... that seems a lil bit too much though... im working on getitng all the schematics sorted out.. i mena i could just post all the different circuits for the tycho parachute, the wah, the wah/antiwah, volume, and rotovibe deal... and i guess for pot value it might be worth a shot but the thing is i think the mechanical part is the hardest dealing with this pedal style....  i took some inspiration from looking at this kids toys... i live down in naples FL and we have alleys in the bcak of the houses and kids usually play in the grass back there... he had some lego deal with all these gears.. that got me thinking maybe get somethign that goes up and down affecting one gear, gearing it right obv would be a nightmare... and then using that to rotate the pot/pots... and with that you could make the push/pull action (in order to get the rotation...) you could make it be going horizontal versus needing a deeper pedal to have more room to push ur rack down more.....


or even better yet... what about either customizing a pot.. i knwot aht can be done to an extent.. or gettng one made... but the point is... that would have the full rotation as far as full connection to lug 1, from 2, and then full to lug 3 from 2 the other way... but only having to turn it say however many degrees of a rack gear i could fit in there

[The Tone God]

Welcome to the forum. Boy you sure are a chatty one.

I haven't read through all your post as they are well...wordy and jump through a number of topics. I'll focus on your optical/wah questions.

Morley does use an optical system. Can you make a standard wah optical ? Yes but it is alot more work. Why ? If you take the time to look at the schematics you'll see that Morley's wahs use a series resistance element to vary the sweep which can use with a standard two leg type LDR. If you look at the standard wah circuits they use all three connections on the pot. This makes using common two leg LDRs difficult.

You can read the Rock N' Control article at my site to perhaps understand more. I think you are tackling a project with too large a scope. One thing can't be everything. Ask my therapist.

Andrew

[DEZREJECT]

haha damn straight gotta take charge

you know ive been seeing that it might be too difficult to really stuff it all in... not so much that itd be hard to get it to fit but just the design of it its nerve wracking... soo im thinking im just gunna try to make a soupd out hot rod wah, and then maybe buy some more morley shells because i love the set up.. then just work around say the parachute, a rotovibe, and maybe even just buy a little alligator and maybe mod it a lil.... ive noticed with a lot of 2n1 pedals it seems they both take a loss from the combination... so maybe for that part it can be a blessing in disguise... and in the end ive also been thinking if i can somehow maybe just work the morley out to an expression pedal persay i could make a rack mount deal with all those effects some day.. some how... but right now it wouldnt be too feasible... lol it was a good dream though right?!

ill have to figure out with site is urs..

thanks for all the good responces all

[DEZREJECT]

wow dude... lol dont get me wrong.. but i love you. that is exactly what i was trying to find!!! ur site has just resparked the candle for this project of dying hope !!!

http://www.geocities.com/thetonegod/rockncontrol/rock.html

^^ amazing...  :-D

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after reading the article at the end of it the geofex one...and putting it all together... basically all i have to do it hook up a rocker pedal-ed pot... to control the voltageS! (multiple!!!) of the LEDs in the variable resistor optocouple deals!!!!!! woo! so from that... although yeah i couldnt have EVERYTHING... i could Easiiiiily do a wah, a volume, and then hopefully something like the parachute or maybe even a flange... but see this also brings something to mind... if you put all of the circuits on their OWN LED/LDR deal... then... then then then mr. tone god, sir... am i correct in thinking that you could just switch between any of them?! (ofcourse having to get the "right" pot to control all that and doing the whole correct resistance tapering......)...?!?!?!?


and regardlessly... wow with that information.. i owe you one... well make it about four million, seven-hundred and eighty-four-thousand, two-hundred and sixty-ONE!!!! because... then worst case if the pot was the problem you could say use two in one pedal... one forsay wah, volume.. the other for anti wah, flange, whatever...

[DEZREJECT]

one last update... i have two LDRs to steal from the old morley pedal... ive been toying with an idea... in a sence.. for theory lets say... im considering trying this today... whataya think about using multiple LED/LDR circuits... ie something like this

wah pedal controls one led/ldr by moving a piece with a v cut, allowing less and more light (ala morleys optical design, recreated)

that led/ldr then being able to be switched out to different baords lets say, to keep it simple wah 1, and then wah 2

so how itd work in my head... the first LED/LDR would be controlling the voltage, that would then goto the switch and be switched to ANOTHER led/ldr combo... and thusly you have ONE thing being controlled by the foot pedal, that then could be routed to control multiple boards, or what have you...

tone god? i pray to thee for an answer? haha