Question on First Build - Green Ringer

[zpyder]

Well it's not done yet (because it's not in the box), but thanks to help from all of you out there (specifically R.G.  THANKS!!  ) I've got a Green Ringer PCB (ala tonepad - http://www.tonepad.com/project.asp?id=46) all soldered full of components stuck to a protoboard with my millenium bypass circuit which is succesfully altering the sounds of my instrument!  Pretty exciting really...!

One thing came up though ... When buying my parts at the local Norvac I accidentally bought an electrolytic .1uF cap instead of the non-polarized one that was called for.  Funny thing is, I plugged it in and the circuit seems to work...    By looking at the schem (the .1uF is on the far right) I figure the purpose of the cap is frequency cancelling since the cap is across a 10k resistor and output (hi-pass right?).

It sounds exactly as I'd expect having read build reports... have I gotten away with treason?  Or should I run back to Norvac and get a non-polarized before my amp explodes?

cheers and thanks!
zpyder

[zpyder]

Anybody?  Should I put it in the box or get a non-polarized??

[Seljer]

I believe its there to get rid any DC from the output of the circuit, and it forms a high pass filter with the 47k resistor.

You should be able to get away with a polarized cap in there as long as its oriented it right (the + side is connected the the place with higher voltage than the - side, if you're ver unsure about this build the circuit without the cap there and use a multimeter on the 2 terminals where the cap should be). I think you were lucky and pointed the - towards the output of the circuit so it works fine.

[zpyder]

thanks seljer!

[petemoore]

  Green Ringers can be made using the power supply _ OR + as ground reference.
  Here is a negative ground schematic.
  http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/diagrams/gringer_sc.gif
  What polarity the circuit is dictates the polarity of which way an electrolytic used for output cap goes.
  Put the negative toward the most negative pole in this position...toward the outside...ie + to the collector of the last transistor - to the > output.
  There are cases where a capacitor position will see both polarities and NP caps are necessary.

[petemoore]

  BTW
  'Non-Polarized = NP = BP = Bipolar'

[zpyder]

sweet... understanding more and more as I go along.. eventually things should make more sense...

I did go out and grab an NP - I figured, hey 60 cents to get what the recipe actually calls for...

sounds great.  funky little pedal... I honestly don't know what the hell I'm gonna use that thing for, but it was a good first project (still have to put it in a box)

[petemoore]

  I bilt most them octave circuits, the GR is on my pedalboard. It has a permanent null mod [no sw].
  I prefer it for now because
  It uses 9v supply
  It 'needs' a Fuzz for me to like it [for more sustain and OctaRing Madness]...this means I can switch from Fuzz direct to Octave..adding Octave to Fuzz is what I like to do..[instead of having to use a 'stand alone' Octave and try to turn the Fuzz off at the same time], and choose different varieties of Distortion or Boost for a fairly wide range of Octave Tones...alone it sounds a bit weak for my purposes.
  It consistantly does +/- unity [depending on how it's set up.
  I think it's easy to use for Octave effect, compares well but is not 'exactly like the Tycho Octavia I have [I like it/dislike is I have it running from 2 batteries @ 18v].
   
 

[zpyder]

So for me this pedal is a definate combination of Fuzz, octave, and ring mod - but none of them especially stand out.  It seems kinda like an odd combination of all three.  I've noticed that any minor chord I play comes out sounding like a trainwreck... have you had this experience?  I just want to make sure it's doing what it was intended to do.  Could you post a sound clip of your?

thanks

[petemoore]

  There's pages on octave, I don't know where...
  The signal is like 'folded' so that there is doubling...octave is 2x the number of 'events' per time.
  So now every note is actually 2x+ the number of 'events' [cycles per second...]
  These events cross over each other...and cause alot of intermodulation distortion, multiples and divisions of the original note are in the signal now, more than one note can cause a "Third Note' to appear, a math derivitave of the two combined notes, with the GR it becomes more apparent if a clipping/boosting circuit is placed before it...try a ring finger on the B string @ the 15th fret [D] then bend the G string @ 14th fret [A] up one whole step [with the G sustaining, bend the A to B], a 'third note should appear, a low frequency that goes lower as the A is bended up to B. The third not follows a mathmatical equation of the two strings, when one of two tones played together is higher or lower, a sum/difference of the note is introduced by the GR [most or all? octaves do this].
  When three or more notes are played at the same time, the numbers of frequencies produced increases...tones are all over the place with third notes and derivitaves...so that any of the individual tones are indistinguishable in all the 'hash'.
  Long story short, it alters the way you play...1 or 2 notes at a time...or 'space splaterrings' tones if you desire...the amount of frequencies input are multiplied in the octave effect by it's ability to produce harmonic derivitaves.
  IOW that's how the GR works...
   

[zpyder]

bitchin...

yea there is a serious harmonic stew going on there... craziness.  I tell ya, just striking the open strings through the GR creates one hell of a thunderbomb.  I think it will find a place in a certain self-destructive song ultraterrestrial plays.

you've built other octave pedals and you said that the harmonic distortion seems to be prevelant in most - I wonder if creating a circuit that doubles the frequencies without allowing the originals to pass through would be hugely complicated... I've seen pedals that do this, but they were some megaICified digitech/line6 crap...

cheers

[oldrocker]

Petemoore,  Have you ever built the Ne-octavia?  Simalar sound to the GR only there is volume knob which is cool.  I like the GR also it has a very strange sound that is cool when soloing along with my RAT or TS in front of it.  I housed the GR and Ne-octavia in the same enclosure.  It's not switchable so I have to unplug one to use the other but I may change that.  It's nice to switch btwn the two for some different octave effects.

[Seljer]

Heres a nice thread on octave pedals I once bookmarked: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=40036.0

[g3rmanium]

I've noticed that any minor chord I play comes out sounding like a trainwreck... have you had this experience?

Welcome to octave pedals, enjoy your stay! 

[petemoore]

Petemoore,  Have you ever built the Ne-octavia?
  Yupp, nice Octave effect...
  Never built a Scrambler, Fender BLender, or the *mosfet doubler [GEO], which looks to be a departure from most of the Octaves in method and sound, and a tricky lookin' wicket to start off into..
  the list of ones I've done would be long and I'd miss some probably.

[oldrocker]

PeteMoore, You should build the scrambler for sure.  It has a dangerously radical octave distortion that just blows doors off hinges.  I can't believe how mean this pedal is.  I don't know why this effect didn't catch on for Ampeg.  I think it's a really loud, in your face sound effect. 
I know you've built a lot more DIY's than I have.  I seen some old messages of yours from way back in here so you don't need another octave I'm sure.  Have you tried the ShackTave yet though?  I really like the down octave on that one with the cleaner settings.

[petemoore]

  Shocktave's a cool effect, mine didn't last right cause it wasn't built right ///