How do 1N4001s sound with LEDs and silicon?

[brad]

I'm going to use 2 DPDT switches to select different diodes on a DOD250, but I can't decide on which ones to use!    I want to get as many distinct tones as possible out of the switches (i.e. not just "slightly fuzzier").  My initial choice was standard silicons on one side, and 2 red LEDs on the other so the tone would go from normal, to BIG, to BIGGER.  The problem with that combo is that you're going to get 1 LED and 1 silicon no matter which DPDT you turn on first. 

If I were to replace one of the LEDs with another type of diode, I could get 3 different tones in addition to the stock sound...so I was thinking of using a 1N4001.  But can anyone tell me if 1N4001s sound any good when used in a diode pair against a silicon diode or an LED?  Is it a totally different sound? 

I'd love to "try it and see", but because my amp and soldering stuff are at different houses, I'd rather get it right the first time

So really, it's a toss up between these two configurations:
Choice 1
* Switch 1 up + Switch 2 up = silicon + silicon
* Switch 1 down + Switch 2 up = LED + silicon
* Switch 1 up + Switch 2 down = silicon + LED *same tone as above*
* Switch 1 down + Switch 2 down = LED + LED

Choice 2
* Switch 1 up + Switch 2 up = silicon + silicon
* Switch 1 down + Switch 2 up = LED + silicon
* Switch 1 up + Switch 2 down = silicon + 1N4001
* Switch 1 down + Switch 2 down = LED + 1N4001

[brad]

Of course, my theory is that "good" tone is arbitrary, therefore it's better to focus on whatever proides the biggest contrasts.

[MartyMart]

I would use the 1N4001's , I like using them with Si/Ge to get some assymetrical
clipping , I use one in "TS" type circuits and like the resulting "grunt"
I guess it's like a step between 1N4148 and an LED.

MM

[brad]

That makes sense...because a the forward current of a 4001 is higher than an Si, and the forward current of an LED is even higher still, right?

It's funny.  I've experimented with diode combos for years...but never tried just a single 4001 beside a Si or an LED

[MartyMart]

Here's some examples :

"TS" feedback loop 1x 1N4148 and 1x 1N4001
"Dist+" to ground diodes 2x 1N34A (Ge in series) and 1x 1N4001
or try 1x 1N4001 each way for symetrical
"SD-1" 1x 1N4001+ 1x 1N34A in series used in both directions ( two sets )

MM.

[brad]

Thanks Marty.  This is such a nooby sounding topic. 

[MartyMart]

Thanks Marty.  This is such a nooby sounding topic. 

Not at all, some very "cheap" sounding OD's/Distortions have been "brought back to life"
with simple diode changes and a couple of tone shaping cap changes

Simple "mods" can often make huge changes to a pedal !

MM.

[dano12]

If you haven't committed to DPDT switches yet, you can get all the options you want with some simple rotary switches:

[anti-idiot]

that's almost exactly the idea i've had. but, instead of having 2 6th-no-diode poles, my configuration goes:
Ge - Si - LED (red) - LED (green) - MOSFET - none / Ge - Si - LED (red) - LED (green) - MOSFET
6-pole vs 5-pole (i'm not using rotary)

or u can add just one
Ge - Si - LED (red) - LED (green) - MOSFET - none / Ge - Si - LED (red) - LED (green) - MOSFET - LED (orange)

cheers

[WGTP]

Can you hear much difference between the different colored LED's?

IMHO the clipping voltage difference between the different possiblilites is easier to "hear" than the type of clipper used with the same voltage

Estimates/Averages:
LED - 1.8v
2 SI - 1.4v
1 SI - .7v
1 GE - .3v

Might try 2 SI rather than different color LED for more variations, or SI/GE in series.   

[Torchy]

Instead of the orange led's use some IRF fets and 914s as in the Shaka. Very smooth IMO.

[brett]

Hi.
The differences are surprisingly large in low Vf diodes.
Try some BAT and BAW devices, as well as the 1N5819 Schottky.  Then there's mosfets, jfets, BJTs, etc.
Or, to keep it simple, you could stick to the "classic 3": Ge, Si and LED.  They'll get you almost every diode-clipping tone. 
Personally, it'd always use asymetric clipping, because it is harmonically richer, but you could have a switch for that, too.
cheers

[brad]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Using rotary switches would be a great idea, unfortunately there's not enough room in the enclosure to fit them into.  Doh!  Fets sound interesting though.

[darron]

i used 1n4004's in a tube screamer and it sounded good. clean drive with not much flavor to it.

wouldn't you have to try a set of germaniums also? they clip faster....

[TheBigMan]

My personal choice is generally a combo of 1N400x/1N4148 or LEDs in a feedback loop clipper (E.g. TS, SD-1) and either LEDs or Ges in a clipper to ground.  I've been meaning to build a 250 clone and have a play with the diodes, but the 1N34As I've got in my DS-1 sound really good.

[WGTP]

This sounds nice, but might be hard with switching.  Could use a switch for different resistor values.   

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=48507.0