alternative to press n peel

[blanik]

did anyone used a simple felt marker to draw a whole layout on a copper plated pcb and etch it (for simple circuits of course) or the marker is only good to do touch-ups?

R.

[tjcombs]

Yeah, this is quite common. It can be quite too if you already have a layout.

[blanik]

what kind of marker is best? sharpie? mark-a-lot? and are there tips i should know like: go over the traces 3-4 times or let dry between tracings, etc...?

R

[tjcombs]

This is what I use to do any touch ups or traces.


http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=590



Edit: in my first post I meant

It can be quite QUICK too if you already have a layout.

[JimRayden]

what kind of marker is best? sharpie? mark-a-lot? and are there tips i should know like: go over the traces 3-4 times or let dry between tracings, etc...?

R

One layer of marker do tend to wear off quite easily. Do the layout, let it dry, then do it over... three or four layers at least. The outcome looks pretty cool and vintage if you use brown copper board and draw the curves right.

----------
Jimbo

[ulysses]

i use the standard jaycar etching pen to draw one-off boards by hand. small boards like the fuzzes are quite easy to do. obviously the bigger they get the more prone they are to failure.

i find going over parts twice makes it more suseptable to failure.

my advice, get it right first go. i biggest board i drew was the lovetone meatball (McMeat), which etched perfectly and still works fine a year later i had to redraw it several times though because the pen went dry a couple of times and the ink got thin.

cheers
ulysses

[Cardboard Tube Samurai]

I did my first few boards with the aforementioned Jaycar-issued Printed Circuit Marker pen. It is quite good for basic pedals, but gets difficult with finer lines and more complex boards. These days I mostly use it to touch-up areas that don't quite transfer neatly with P'n'P

[Pushtone]

You can also by stick-on or rub-on traces and pads on a sheet.

Lay the sheet on the copper, burnish a section of trace, then burnish a pad or two. lift, realign and burnish again.

Like dry transfer lettering, but for circuits.

[southtown]

at my high school we printed onto trasparencys then put em in a box with purple (uv?) lights, it burnt the image on and we etched it

[Mark Hammer]

1) Staedtler Lumocolor markers are excellent, come in a variety of colours, and tip widths.  Make sure you get the waterproof permanent type.

2) The resist is actually NOT the pigment but the stuff that the pigment flows with, which I gather is clear.  Consequently, ANY colour, even beige, can serve to resist etchant.

3) I like to have 2 or 3 such pens on hand when drawing boards free hand.  One should be black and the other two can be a light and a mid-to-dark colour.  Red and green make a nice combo.  I first draw the pattern with the lightest colour, and then go over it with either the darker colour, or black.  This way, you can keep track of what you have already gone over, and what needs a second coat....that is unless you have some form of colour blindness.  Two coats oughta do her.

Absolutely essential is that you protect the board from "finger juice".  Residues from finger secretions or any other moisture source can cause oxidation of the board or simply form a resistive layer that impedes etching.  Everything that isn't resist, whether toner, or pen, or nail polish, should be shiny and bright.  It is helpful to cover the areas you are not drawing on with paper or plastic.  I piece of "onion skin" paper is quite useful for this since it will slide easily over the board surface.

NOTEL You can remove/erase mistakes made while using pens by simply erasing them with the eraser end of a ball point pen or pencil.  This can be far more precise than other methods and also provides some polishing of the surface at the same time.

[thumposaurus]

I've used the fine tip "paint" pens to hand draw layouts before.  It works better than sharpies, you only have to do one layer, but it can be hard to draw thiner traces with it.

[blanik]

thank you all!! i was interested in etching simple stuff but the whole iron and printer routine wasn't attractive for me...
before drawing on the board i guess i need to clean it of any fat (finger juice...) can i just wipe it clean with lighter fluid? (i love that stuff, it works for anything...) and use nitrile gloves? (have a ton of those from the job  )

R

[pyrop]

I did my first few boards with the aforementioned Jaycar-issued Printed Circuit Marker pen. It is quite good for basic pedals, but gets difficult with finer lines and more complex boards. These days I mostly use it to touch-up areas that don't quite transfer neatly with P'n'P

+1 with the Jaycar marker.. did a GGG TS808 layout this way.
I print the layout on normal paper in reverse (as compared P'n'P / photo paper),
cover the layout with clear tape,
Tape it to the copper side of the board with the printed side out,
Drill all the holes using the layout,
Remove the layout & play dot to dot,
Etch....
Only use it for touching up after using photo paper now..

pyrop

[tjcombs]

+1 with the Jaycar marker.. did a GGG TS808 layout this way.
I print the layout on normal paper in reverse (as compared P'n'P / photo paper),
cover the layout with clear tape,
Tape it to the copper side of the board with the printed side out,
Drill all the holes using the layout,
Remove the layout & play dot to dot,
Etch....
Only use it for touching up after using photo paper now..

pyrop

Wow. Sheeeeeeer genius! I'm going to try that!

[Mark Hammer]

Before the miracle of toner transfer approaches, I would use an approach like that.  First, I'd tape a photocopy of the layout on the copper board.  Then I'd use my spring-loaded centre-punch (my best friend at the time) to stick a dimple in the middle of every pad.  I'd get a pack of rub-on transfers of circles and IC pads from Radio Shack or wherever, and place an appropriate sized one over each dimple.  Then I'd "cont the dots" and etch/drill.

I used to use pen for everything, but the pads ended up being too ugly and uneven.  I found that rub-ons for pads  provided a decent compromise.  Plus they were cheap and easily available.

Note however, that a GREAT many photocopy outlets do stck glossy photopaper and will happily copy your layouts to it for a fairly modest price.  Most of the layouts we use here are fairly compact.  If you print them out properly on regular paper, cut them out, and rearrange them in a space-conscious way onto a single letter-sized sheet, it is no problem whatsoever to get 20 or more 1590B-sized PCB patterns on one sheet for copying to a glossy sheet (or PnP).  While I applaud your willingness to do the hard work yourself, the precision of toner-transfer is wonderful thing.  Of course, if the layouts are your own, that's another thing, but there ARE many layout packages that can be used to print to paper, and permit you to use toner transfer.