Holy crap! Will e-bay ever be the same again?

[vanessa]

Beware of those pedals, if they're clones they're bad ones. I thought the bass limiter was a clone of the boss... well I bought one($20.00, I'm a sucker for cheap pedals) and it's just too damn hissy to use. Not so with the boss version. Everything works fine, but it's useless. It also looks and 'feels' really cheap and fragile, IF I could use it I can't imagine how it could hold up to... being used. Lightweight poorly molded plastic. Even the hinge pins. Plastic hinge pins. Might as well stomp on a ping pong ball.

That being said, I have lots of Behhinger's non-pedal stuff, and I'm fairly happy with everything else. That's partly why the pedal was such a dissapointment.

I have to agree. If they are not road worthy and they make too much noise for recording, what's the good in saving a few bucks if you can't use it? At least with the Danelectro stuff they may not be road worthy but you can record with most of the line.

[disto]

looks like they did have legal action taken against them by roland
http://www.axetopia.com/news/06_04/Behringer_Roland_Settle.html
http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=013326;p=1

didnt find anything from ehx though which is a shame i think alot of the ehx products are and rolands are good value

[Harry Palms]

FWIW. For my needs they are fine. I buy the boss clones and not the EH clones for personal reasons.

I've rehoused and (slightly) modded 5 of the Behringer pedals including the AC sim and the Sansamp clone. At least 2 of them were on my board for over half of  70 gigs in '06.
They are too hissy; at bedroom levels.
But -
I don't play in my bedroom or any other room in my house.
I don't meet for "Tone" fests.
I don't have friends with whom I wax philosophic over tone purity.
I don't play the blues unless I absolutely have to. I loathe the blues.
I don't use excessively expensive cables and fancy buffers.
I don't even practice except to learn new additions to the song list.
The band doesn't "practice". After 35 years of playing we find it's a waste of time.
Considering this, again, I find the pedals to be fine for my needs.
Apparently we don't suck too badly since we've had to turn down too many gigs to remember for simple lack of time.

Considering the stage noise floor in live conditions (especially during the later sets) the AC sim, even with a compressor in front to even out the spikes (I use a DOD Milkbox -VCA based or a Dano Surf and Turf) is fine. The Sansamp will cover for Nickelback retreads. Hiss concerns in those moments is irrelevant. It's all loud and hissy. That's the way rock and roll sometimes is. You just have to punch effects in and out at the right times to keep it less noticable. My old ears can't much tell the difference and I've found that the younger ears in the bar scene audience generally don't even care. The other OD's have all faired fine in this respect too. I don't use Behringer ODs much not because they don't sound good enough but only because I've got enough of the same decent ODs already to choke a horse. The non OD ones have more interest to me.

Take the Behringers out of the plastic crap cases. Stomp switch bypass them. Wire them up. Secure the boards and you've got a pedal that's giggable. Inside the crappy wrapper is just another circuit board which, I believe, durability-wise is not too different than it's more expensive predecessor (the circuits, so far that I've seen, are almost identical - the only difference being one will use an NPN buffer stage while the other migh use an FET setup. I can't recall which does which offhand). Keep costs down by reusing as much of each pedal as you can get away with. Also, use RG's 2 by 4 steel framing stud suggestion for it's new home. This idea alone is a huge money saver.


It's really, at that point, up to you how well the thing will hold up. The other idea here being to extend the "bang for the buck" factor as far as you can go with it.

These suggestions are meant for you who actually play, real time, the gear you build.

For the (ever increasing) business oriented people who now use the board for business pursuits I'm more than certain this information is useless. There's no profit potential in it at all.

For the newest editions to their line of boss clones; I can hardly wait.

[vanessa]

So basically by the time you're done rehousing the pedal you've spent enough money on a new enclosure and a 3PDT switch that you could have bought the real thing and had a well made PCB and components included? Or had built your own pedal from scratch and put even better components/mods etc. in it?

[fixr1984]

Any chance you would share your mod ideas on the AC sim pedal?  I have one and
would be currious what you did to yours.

[disto]

some possible mods on these pedals would be great! ok so people are saying they are going to be crap, so why not improve on them instead!

personally id love to see mods on these ive been to scared to attempt mods on more expensive pedals incase i screw them up

[Harry Palms]

Disto and Fixr. I didn't do much with this one. Replaced the switch with a 4 way rotary. A gain resistor maybe. I could actually do away with the 4 way; recycle it, since I only use it on one setting. Run a compressor in front of it and it makes a world of difference. The TL06X is a noisy opamp but it's got a low current draw so we can listen to that hiss for a lot longer 

So basically by the time you're done rehousing the pedal you've spent enough money on a new enclosure and a 3PDT switch that you could have bought the real thing and had a well made PCB and components included? Or had built your own pedal from scratch and put even better components/mods etc. in it?

I'm not sure if it's the reading itself or the comprehension you're struggling with.
I'll try to speak more clearly.
Maybe some pictures will do.

I don't see a darn thing wrong with this box. It's seems perfectly suitable given what it's contents will be.












I can measure, cut, bend, rivet and drill it in 15 minutes. Cost: maybe 50 cents.




I don't see a darn thing wrong with this PCB. Not one thing. The routing is clean, the board is relatively thick, the soldering is well done, you can remove parts easily enough given a practiced hand which many here surely have.

I paid about $13 bucks shipped aftermarket for the pedal.




















I get my switches, signal jacks and DC jacks in bulk at a cost of about 6 or 7 bucks total/pedal. The junk signal jacks on this particular job were even cheaper.
The pots are ALPS. I'm fine with that. They stay. The knobs fit the pot shafts. They stay.

New 4 way rotary switch; Rat Shack a buck and a half. The chicken head knob is an amp build leftover from years back.

No LED here. I knew when it was on. Not because the hiss told me (it's really just not that bad in a live setting) but because I set it for a slight volume boost. I've since added the LED with a cheap bezel. Add another 50 cents.


End product.








Sure. It's got a face only a mother could love. I'm fine with that too.
There's an underlying ingenuity with this method of boxing up effects. Screw down the bottom plates, rout and bury your power lines, run the jacks at the top end (not the sides), load all the pedal parts onto the top half, set them closely side by side. When you want to swap out effects you just unplug the signal and power jacks, pop off the top part of the case which holds the pedal, swap another encased pedal and plug it in again. It's completely modular. The swaps can take a minute maybe. Carry a stash of different backup pedals to the gig, unboarded, and if one on the board isn't doing it for you that night just take a minute or so to pop in another one.

Another key thing for me is that I just simply do not like electronic switching and superflous buffers.  All that crap would have to come out if I used the original Boss pedals. I'd have to cut and fit the board and the box to do a hard bypass/unbuffered setup anyway. That takes a lot of planning and execution time too as well as the added cost. Arguably more time and money than this even.

So what's this one cost? Say $22 total. I'm fine with that too. After 5 or so Behr rehouses I just consider it practice now.

Practice makes perfect sometimes; or at least it can make you quicker.

When I rehouse the DC2 it'll be perfect. And I'll have it done in an afternoon.

Feel free to pay full price for a DC2, reverse it, source your own parts, perfboard it and then resell the original if you so choose. Maybe someone will come along eventually and give you an all in one, paint by numbers .pdf file. Load it with the "best" parts.

Or, back to the original point of this thread, wait and hope that the clones impact the ebay resale values and get a steal on one for $250. I doubt that happens given the consumer addiction to mojo which runs so deep with this nonsen...er, stuff.

Whatever you do, do whatever it is you do.


pics edited for size

[Xavier]

I'm curious about the DC2 clone, having myself an original DC2. I'm buying one only to compare them side by side.

The memory man clone looks also too tempting.

This being said, what they do is terrible. How can a company blatantly clone everybody so freely? The Boss issue was interesting already, but I think the EHX clones are even worse. Good for musicians looking for low cost effects, but if everything they do is copy what others build, that will hurt the future development for new products, as Behringer's "I+D" department is basically the one belonging to the companies they rip off.

[Doug_H]

I think the small Behringer mixers are nice and well worth the price. I've got one for recording that works great and has held up well for a long time. I'm going to upgrade and will probably go back to them.

I'd love to get the Behringer DC-2 clone. I've been curious about that one for a long time but I won't pay the exhorbitant prices based on "rarity" and "demand". I would love to hear how it compares to the detune on my PS-5, which is what the DC-2 eventually evolved into. All this ethical talk is nonsense especially wrt to the DC-2 since they are not manufactured anymore anyway. It's worth a few bucks to satisfy my curiosity if nothing else.

I grew up in the era of EH/MXR when what commands astronomical prices today was dirt cheap and easily accessible for all musicians. I don't waste nostalgia or sentiment on old pedals unless they absolutely do something that nothing else available today does. Behringer's apparent "scorched earth" policy aside, I'm glad someone is putting out something akin to the DC-2 at a reasonable price. It just makes another tonal color available for people who don't want to play the "vintage" game, at the expense of some quality. But as "Harry" mentioned, in the end it's just another PCB that can be rehoused...

[solarplexus]

IMO, I don't think that what Behringer does is wrong... it's not NICE, but it's not WRONG.  What I find really WRONG is people that come to this forum to sneak up all the information and mods, builds a simple Booster and sells it on e-bay or in their hometown for 150$, or builds a TS808 clone and sells it for 250$ telling it has the best possible, warmest tube-like, boutique sound ever made by mankind.  I'm a school teacher, I don't have much money, I gig resonably (used to gig alot before), I need affordable gear with bearable sound for gigs.  I WILL buy the VB-2 clone, I WILL probably buy the DC-2 clone... why?? Cause I'm tired of the e-bay hyped getting in the way of my musical creativity.  If I find these pedals give me the vibe I am looking for and I can't possibly play without them, I will then consider buying the original vintage model, even if I think they're overpriced.  I think Behringer is exploiting a market, but this also means that musicians around the world will be able to experiment more with vintage sounds that were almost too hard to get and afford before; and then grow with that and then decide themselves if the real vintage one is an option.  If it makes music evolve, I'm glad Behringer is copying those pedals. 

Ohh.... and did I say... I WILL buy the spectrum clone as well!

.............but that's just my two cents....

Matt

[fikri]

But OTOH, we were in a studio last week recording, sitting on top of the $500K 60 channel Neve board was one of those silver Behringer direct boxes.  The only direct boxes I saw in the place were the cheap Behringer ones.  Looked a bit out of place beside the Pro Tools rig.  So maybe you have to try their stuff out to see if it is a diamond or a turd.  It is a huge shame they went surface mount on the pedals, it would be great if you could get a cheap pedal to modify.  I swapped an op amp in my Bad Monkey awhile back and it was NOT easy...

The Behringer Direct box is surprisingly good, i was once have to record direct with the Behringer direct box from a rackmount preamp. As the internal cab sim from the preamp wasnt satisfied me.

[Quackzed]

seems like the general concensus is like, well sure theyre not original designs, but they're cheap so...cool.
so here are some songs I wrote
I'm pretty sure you'll like them, cause they're all based on popular songs...
sympathy for el diablo
yesterdai
wish ewe were here
bloughing in the wind
let it bee
cream on
the star speckled banner
all you need is glove
and you can have em all for one low low price...
...
seriously though, i have some knock off pedals from some corporate mega-giant companies with questionable buisiness ethics. Im a poor musician so my back is against the wall right? right.
what I want to know is this.
If there was a button you could push that would bring all these giant idea ripping companies to their knees, really just level them into bankrupcy and dust...
would you push it?

[axg20202]

I'll have to agree that I also haven't had the pleasure of using a piece of Behringer kit without thinking it was flimsy, flakey crap.  On the other hand, I think a lot of stuff EH turns out, which I think is made in the US, is total crap too. Poor build quality and overpriced. The adage of "you get what you pay for" is mostly not true at all. e.g. some boutique pedal makers charge WAY over the odds for some of their stuff because they make only a few - its simple economy of scale. It doesn't mean it will necessarily be better quality.

This brings me on to some people talking of exploiting China etc etc. I think this is total crap. Electronics manufacture forms a major part of the Asian economy - we are keeping their economies afloat by buying products manufactured there. Part of the reason electronics can seem almost too cheap to be true is that it is often produced on a massive scale, which keeps prices very low. Also, to suggest that an assembly line employee in China building electronics for sale in the US (or anywhere) should be receiving a salary in line with salaries for an equivalent job in the US (or anywhere) is also total crap and completely naive. OK, so we wish that developing countries had better standards of living. Fine, but give me a break and get off your high horse. We all buy cheap imported goods. {OT RANT OVER}