RoHS - Are all sellers changing? Real implications for pedal builders?

[black mariah]

In a few years RoHS will be looked on the same way OBDII is now. A lot of hand-wringing about very little. When OBDII hit you had performance parts manufacturers all freaking out, sending out petitions, trying to make it sound like you were going to be buying a car that didn't have a hood and you couldn't mod your stuff and blah blah blah...

Years later you have cars that put out more horsepower and get better mileage on lower grade fuel than pre-OBDII cars, and they can still be modded with little difficulty.

See where I'm going here?

[El Caballo]

The main problem is documentation.  Not only do you have to use compliant parts, you have to be able to document that the parts you use are compliant.  This means that you have to have all your receipts from all your suppliers, be able to trace the source of every part on your PCB to a specific receipt, and have compliance information for every part.

Of course, this only happens if they actually check you for compliance.  Like CE marking, you don't have to submit paperwork in order to sell your product -- but having a CE mark means that the CE authority can demand you show them your compliance paperwork at any time, so you had better have it available.  RoHS is the same way.

If you are making pedals for yourself or for friends, none of this is an issue.  However, if you are selling your creations commercially, in shops or on the Web, you may get scrutinized just as Teese was.

[gez]

The main problem is documentation.  Not only do you have to use compliant parts, you have to be able to document that the parts you use are compliant. 

Suppliers who are on the ball and only sell RoHS compliant components - Farnell springs to mind - have all this sorted.  They can provide documentation for everything and anything they sell.  Use a RoHS dedicated company and none of this is an issue.

[Dai H.]

from the little bit that I've read, it seems you need more heat to solder with lead free solder so if that leads to burning more fossil fuels, then... hmm

Good tip design concentrates the heat better.  Buy an Antex Iron, or some other brand intended to be used with lead-free solder, and you shouldn't have any problems.  I have a few from that brand, all fairly low wattage (they're excellent for SMD), so I doubt that lead-free is having an impact on the environment in terms of wasting more fossil fuel.

also, some of the platings for parts are apparently not compatible with lead free solder, so obviously that could lead to problems.

When in doubt, cover the buggers in flux...

well the literature I've read says to use something around a size larger (whether that means going from 40W if using 30W or whatever I'm not sure), plus lead-free has a higher melting point and the tips apparently wear out 3 times faster. On the surface that sounds like more energy is being used but I'm no expert so I certainly could be wrong. For mass produced electronics that are meant to be short-lived and disposable and more likely to end up in a landfill I guess it makes sense, but for say something like Teese wahs, I don't really see them being thrown away en masse like a bunch of cheap toaster ovens.

[gez]

well the literature I've read says to use something around a size larger (whether that means going from 40W if using 30W or whatever I'm not sure), plus lead-free has a higher melting point and the tips apparently wear out 3 times faster.

These work fine:

Any Old Iron

18W and 25W.  As I said earlier, good design improves efficiency.  I've been using lead-free solder for years.  It doesn't take much to get used to it, more a question of using the right tools for the job.

People are resistant to change - it's human nature - but a year or two down the line everyone will wonder what all the fuss was about...

[PaulC]

People are resistant to change - it's human nature - but a year or two down the line everyone will wonder what all the fuss was about...

Well - there are already some problems I'm having with Rohs and the changes that manufactors are having to do.  For my day job I design, and build amps for Heritage.  This past year the company that makes the reverb pans changed them over to be Rohs compliant.  They sound nothing like they did - they're really horrible sounding tbh.  They told me what they had to do to be compliant, and they've been tweaking them over the past year.  At this point I feel like ripping the verbs out of the amps, and going with FX loops for racks...

Also I'm not sure about alpha, or if anybody else is seeing this, but I've had a lot of problems with their pots since they went Rohs.  I've had about a dozen pedals come back for repair that have had the solder lugs come loose from the element - intermittent connections.

I'm sure this will all work out in the future, but for now it's making things very hard on my end.

Later, PaulC
Heritage amps/Tim and timmy pedals

[R.G.]

You're very correct PaulC.

We had a persistent problem with RoHS soldering for almost a year. It takes a different set of temperatures and fluxes. The machine soldering had to be tweaked and tweaked and tweaked, and the hand solderers had to be re-educated. The QC inspectors had to be re-educated because good RoHS solder joints look different from tin-lead. There are two major lead free solders. They're similar, but differ in temperature, flux and time details in production. The higher temps and different times started cracking leads at solder pads. We'd have sudden spells where first-pass failures would go over 15% on the line. The reverb tanks went to the dogs. Alpha pots went funny, got better, went funny and then got better again. Certain lots of parts would suddenly not accept solder, possibly because of the solder, possibly because of the flux, possibly because of the coating on the leads of the part.

I think that a large part of the delay in getting Workhorse amps to market is that RoHS happened right then, in spite of being designed for RoHS compliance from the start. In my case, the fuss was about not being able to get a product to market. For a long time.

[PaulC]

Hey R.G.,

  Well - I hate that we're both having some of the same problems, but I'm glad to know you've seen it also - I'm not losing my mind!  I was wondering if for some reason all of a sudden I forgot how to solder...

   In the verb area I'm waiting on some new pans from Magic Parts.  They're making their own now, and I got to plug one into one of our amps at NAMM, and it seemed pretty good.  I'm hoping that with a little bit of circuit tweaking when I get them I'll be able to get things back to what they were.  They're backordered right now though - told me at least 3 weeks from yesterday (told me it would be two weeks - two weeks ago...).

   Anyway - Later!  PaulC

[tonefreak]

Paul and R.G.-

I really appreciate a real world perspective on how RoHS has affected QC.  I wonder how the other builders are handling these issue since there's a pretty good chance they are experiencing the same issues.  My fear is that some companies may not have the attention to detail or great care you two have... there is a good possibility of RoHS products that have a potentially high failure rate.  Ugh.

[gez]

I'm sure this will all work out in the future, but for now it's making things very hard on my end.

I'm not for one moment pretending that RoHS hasn't been a pain in the backside for a lot of manufacturers, and I'm sorry to hear of your problems.  Last year a number of firms across the EU were right royally stuffed when the legislation came in.  Pace - they make digital set top boxes - had to suspend production while they waited for the semiconductor industry to get its act together and release compliant chips.  They went from making a record profit one year to a record loss the next.  They released profit figures a week or two ago and it was good to see them making healthy returns once more.

As far as this forum goes, however, the majority here are DIYers and a lot of their fears are unfounded.  It's still possible to buy non-compliant components in the EU and they're advertised as such, it's just not legal to make anything for profit with them - build for you own use/repair all you want though.  And as I keep banging on about, lead-free solder isn't that much of an ogre.  Once you get used to working with it it's no big deal.  As for Ge, only time will tell.  Perhaps Europe will become a 'Fuzz Free Zone'?   

[Fp-www.Tonepad.com]

We went RoHS with our boards.

[black mariah]

BTW, don't take my post as stating there won't be problems. There are, and there will be more before it's over with. There are teething problems with every new process or standard.

I guarantee you that given the new limitations we'll be seeing all sorts of cool new stuff come about. It always happens.

[tonefreak]

I've made the move to RoHS compliancy, which wasn't that painful.  Most of the parts I'm already sourcing are RoHS compliant.  I put in my order for lead free solder, so we'll see how that goes.

[JHS]

Most countries only sent  polititians to the EU parlament who were "acting w/o luck", who were corrupt or fail in some other way, Germany and Poland for ex. This is another stupid ex. made by the primate politicians in the EU.

In the recycling process for metal it won't make any difference if there is lead in the solder or not (batteries for cars have lead in it too and are recycled in the same factory with all the other metal).

Those primates have even standardized the curve or bow of bananas, that were exported to EU countries (only foreign not european bananas). Let's see what comes next.

IMHO I don't think that someone will ever check what solder is in a junked FX or any technical device. Since the 11.10. they check for radio activity but I never, never seen someone analyzing the million tons of junk in a recycling comp.

JHS