A little OT...why are analog delays so expensive (retail-wise)?

[BMF Effects]

Having never built one I'm curious as to why analog delays command a higher price. Is the components that are involved in building it? Mojo factor? Thanks.

[Mark Hammer]

They're not ALWAYS that expensive, but for a long period there, the BBD chips were rare and costly.  There is also the fact that there is often some labour involved in setting them up (trimpots, etc.), plus they sometimes require larger chassis.  In the case of the Memory Man, there is also the extra space/cost of the power supply.  I'd be foolish to ignore the fact that they are also an effect which is generally bought by non-novices, who may have more money to spend, hence can toelrate a higher price-point.

[StephenGiles]

It's a balancing act between supply/demand and bottom line profit, with the latter usually taking preference!

[BMF Effects]

I guess what prompted this question is that I came across a boutique analog delay last night for $800 new. Granted it was loaded with options but the price caught me off guard.

[R.G.]

"Boutique" has always been in the fashion industry from whence it came with stores providing small volume, high priced, la-di-da gewgaws for the wealthy. I think that's why it was rolled over to effects and amps.

The chips inside analog delays have historically not been high volume chips in industry, and so were on the wrong side of the price/volume curve. But a really good analog delay chip and clock chip to run it can be had for under $20. There's a long way between that and $800.

I think the reason that boutique effects sell for gazillions is that there are people who will pay the price. It has always been a winning strategy in marketing to sell a few highly decorated and rumor-mongered widgies to a well-heeled and noncritical market instead of selling many, many plain, sturdy working tools to a broad market. You only have to sell a few at $800 a pop to make a lot of money. Less work, more money ... what could be better?

[oldschoolanalog]

Less work, more money ... what could be better?

NO work, more money  !
RGs spot on again. There will always be a certain cross section within any given demographic that has the; "I've just gotta have it because it's the most expensive"; mentality.

[Mark Hammer]

On the other hand, until the recent spate of BBD availability (due to Behringer demand, I gather) unless you were MIke Matthews (who had bought up the vast majority of MN3005 chips in the world to keep the memory Man afloat) or the late Bob Moog (who seems to have bought up a big chunck of what was left for the Moogerfooger Delay pedal), the chances were pretty damn good you were not going to be able to produce an analog delay pedal indefinitely.  So how do you justify the R&D expenses to yourself?  Easy.  You sell the pedals for the highest price you can fetch.

[Hiwatt25]

Less work, more money ... what could be better?

"Money for nothin' and your chicks for free"?  Sorry, I read that and though about Mark Knopfler.

[BMF Effects]

Please understand that I'm not trying to slam anyone. I just did not know what could possibly cost so much. I thought maybe there was some uber-rare IC that may have driven build costs up.

[nelson]

I know that the toneczar delay pedal(s) are very expensive.

The designer was kind enough to post a schematic for one of his (I assume) early delays.


http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=18388.0

His current production models probably use the same topology but he adds far more bells and whistles.

[Mark Hammer]

Please understand that I'm not trying to slam anyone. I just did not know what could possibly cost so much. I thought maybe there was some uber-rare IC that may have driven build costs up.

Absolutely understood.
And remember that "rare" not only means that it costs the builder more money to buy the components.  It also means that they won't be able to sell 10,000 of pedal X for a $30 profit over the next 5 years, so they choose to sell 500 of them for an $80 profit @.  I doubt that there is a person here who could not see the logic in that sort of profit-margin adjustment (at least the direction, if not the absolute dollar amounts).

[BMF Effects]

The Cornish delay certainly puts the Echoczar into price perspective. 

[nelson]

The cornish delay is a modified Boss DD-2.

[Ben N]

Ahh... This old fart remembers the days when analog delays were, if not cheap, at least run-of-the-mill, and digital was the new & pricey thing that was going to change everything. 

Ben

[BMF Effects]

The cornish delay is a modified Boss DD-2.

That I knew, but the price...

[Mark Hammer]

Well, if you look at the pedal (http://massstreetmusic.com/catalog/images/01896-1.jpg) this is clearly not something assembled in the same manner as Behringer pedals.  Things are revitted into place, and there is probably a fair amount of assembly time involved.  Not to mention the DD-2 guts have to be removed and re-installed and rewired.  Finally, I gather when you buy a Cornish pedal, thebuilder-buyer relationship is not wuite the same as with Boss or Behringer.  The purchaser does have the opportunity to say "I was wondering if you might be able to...".  Cornish orients himself to buyers, not to sales.  As a result the price is different because the relationship is different.

Perhaps there are some clever tricks in there, but the idea of a largely digital pedal that has an analog feedback path with variable filtering in the feedback path is entirely feasible.  Indeed, something like that could be readily implemented in the PT-80 project.  Doesn't make Cornish's pedal a ripoff.  Just means you don't have to buy THAT one to achieve a similar effect.

[oldschoolanalog]

Ahh... This old fart remembers the days when analog delays were, if not cheap, at least run-of-the-mill, and digital was the new & pricey thing that was going to change everything. 

Ben

Suddenly, I don't feel so alone anymore!
Oh, the days past...
(sigh)

[Paul Marossy]

NO work, more money 

I still haven't found the solution to that problem. 

[KMS]

Did anyone mention that the analog delay has a different sound.....distorts slightly more each repetition.

If your trying to reproduce old classic covers........analog delay is the best for that old sound.

I guess that such a need-to-have-it could also give rise to the price.

I had no idea that these units were that expensive.  I have an old Electra 200 Delay.....with re-verb....and foot controls for the re-verb and the delay.  The re-verb is crappy so I don't use it, but the delay is fantastic.  I modded it to 1sec delay and added foot controls for rate ramp up/down with two ranges and a foot control for the range also....actually I made a stompbox that is patched to the rack mount unit and I can set any 4 rates I want and stomp between those 4 rates.

Amazing....I have not used it in about 1 year now....it is just setting there collecting dust.