Suggestions needed...

[markm]

There is no problem. People argue.

No they don't!!

Oh yes they do.

......see?! 

[George Giblet]

> I have made my comments on the idea of a separate forum

I pretty much agree with all Andrew said.  Except I don't care if there are threads like this or not. 

Arguing:  People know wars are bad but they still create them, I guess that's the hypocrisy of the human race.   The advantage of the virtial world is you cannot be harmed.  If you develop your "virtual thick skin" you are invincible.

Enforcement:  It can't be done.  Tick boxes won't help: both deceptive and naive members will tick the box.  All you can do is warn people about the nature of IP on the web before they fall into the pit.

Suggestion:  If people are found to make money from others then all I can suggest is to have a page on this site that indicates the "offence" together with company name and member id.  Hopefully this list will show-up on a web search.

Unfortunately if a battle breaks out that may fall on Aron's as he runs the site, which is unfair, so perhaps another site is required.

[gez]

Oh yes they do.

(all together)

OH NO THEY DON'T! [/Panto]

PS  Time for lounge?

[Pushtone]

Suggestion:  If people are found to make money from others then all I can suggest is to have a page on this site that indicates the "offence" together with company name and member id.  Hopefully this list will show-up on a web search.

Ah, an "IP Wall of Shame".  Now thats getting tough.

Instead a positive approach, a Wall of GOLD where visitors can be referred to "commercial" builders who license or develop their own designs. 

Yes, It's hard to follow these threads with part of the communication being private messages we are not party to.
An offence page belongs on the designers website.

It should be a private matter between the designer and builder and not use the forum.
Using the forum to shame creates mistrust between members and there lies the poison that kills.

Example, because of a post by a "God" forum member, I am unsure how I should perceive another member here with a commercial operation.
Are they friend or foe? They even posted a EQ project the other day. A free contribution of IP. Out of guilt? I don't know who to trust.




Remember the F***tone Fat Booster is a poorly modified Mini Booster threads?
In the end, Jack got compensation to the first units sold.
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=33377.0

[Shepherd]

Suggestion:

Let the public search the forum without being signed in. 
Perhaps some people are trigger happy and only reply if they are already signed in.
Before the move you didn't really need to be signed in to take advantage of this forum.
But that seems to be a pretty sweeping change that has occured recently.

[The Tone God]

Let the public search the forum without being signed in. 
Perhaps some people are trigger happy and only reply if they are already signed in.
Before the move you didn't really need to be signed in to take advantage of this forum.
But that seems to be a pretty sweeping change that has occured recently.

One of the reasons to restrict searching is to prevent spammers, data miners, script kiddies, and others from abusing the search engine. Many forums have this policy. So even go so far as to require an optical confirmation before the search is performed.

Andrew

[kvb]

so what if people had to pay to enter a space where non-public intellectual property could be housed.  All designers could be payed for their designs by those who are using them.

This could even work out for a newb who has stumbled onto something good.

There could be a screening process to determine the value of the IP

[markm]

Almost like purchasing a download from the net? 

[kvb]

more like paying to join a club

[Torchy]

I dont know how helpful Ive been to people in the past as thats a very subjective thing. I dont think Ive offended anyone either, but again thats hard to quantify.

However, I have posted my last veroboard or pcb layout on the web. Thanks to Bancika's software anyone can do layouts now so there's no need for mine.

I have a couple of original designs that wont see a web page either. They arent that clever, just different ways to get a particular sound someone had heard in their head.

Given the acerbic responses on recent threads, I wont be chiming in with any advice either. Im going back to lurking for a bit in the hope that certain people get bored and go elsewhere.

[The Tone God]

more like paying to join a club

And in that instant a branched board will be created by someone or a mass exodus will occur to another forum replacing what this one is right now thus achieving nothing.

Andrew

[markm]

Thanks to Bancika's software any numpty can do layouts now so there's no need for mine.

Hey!
Who ya callin' a "numpty"?? 

[Ronsonic]

I've rewritten this a few times, finally deciding to just not name any names or make obvious references.

Full disclosure: I build pedals as a sideline. Mostly original (-ish) and a few clones. The clones are usually by commission only but I'm presently selling a couple of Octavia clones.  I've helped a few guys here, mostly with guitar amps. That's my line, fixing guitar amps and other music electronics.

I'm a bit of a noob myself around here. But I still got a gripe. If you're gonna sell, be professional. Sell quality work for a good price maintaining good, honest relations with others in the business and the general field of potential customers. Even if it's a hobby, hell especially if it's a hobby do quality. Who wants to make a hobby of shabby work.

I don't publish designs. But, I'm happy to talk to anybody who will listen and think through anything I know. Even if it means describing what is in my stuff - don't tell anyone what's in my designs, but I'll tell you all about that technology and the answer's going to be in there. I do get frustrated with people who won't reach and work with the problem but simply want instruction. Some folks will answer those type questions and you should thank them warmly.

Another gripe is the over use of words like leech and parasite to describe people. There's a very, very few of those here. And they ain't the regular Joe's who build or fix stuff for a hobby and for one reason or another haven't posted their own designs and layouts. If anybody reading this thread thinks that he's being called a leech then you aren't one of the guys who are. Over many conversations they've proven themselves immune to that sort of reflection.

Anyway, this is a wonderful forum and worth preserving. Let's not let any venting or temporary frustration ruin it for ourselves. Yeah, there are some remarkably irritating characters in this world. At least you can just click the go away button, they gotta live with themselves full time.

Ron

[RaceDriver205]

Oh yes they do.

(all together)

OH NO THEY DON'T! [/Panto]

Lol!
"I can't talk, Im mute... I mean... DAMN!" 

People know wars are bad but they still create them, I guess that's the hypocrisy of the human race.

I heard a soldier once make a fairly wise statement which summed it up. "There is no good in war, but there is good in why we fight wars".

[George Giblet]

> It should be a private matter between the designer and builder and not use the forum.

When all is said and done I agree.

> Using the forum to shame creates mistrust between members and there lies the poison that kills.

To some extent that is true.  More the problem is how to judge "offences"; people come up with similar stuff, even seemingly obscure things.  Sometimes there's a limit to how many ways something can be spun.  We could have a vote but numbers doesn't mean truth.

It's not an easy thing to resolve.

> Remember the F***tone Fat Booster is a poorly modified Mini Booster threads?
I was tempted to make an example here but I held back.

I didn't know there was a resolution there and it was very cool of Jack to donate the funds.

[kvb]

more like paying to join a club

And in that instant a branched board will be created by someone or a mass exodus will occur to another forum replacing what this one is right now thus achieving nothing.

Andrew

Yes, leaving is not a solution.


----Well, I'm not even suggesting that there be another forum. More like a room labeled 'private' within THIS forum.  Paying to join might dissuade certain kinds of people from joining.

Members who have circuits posted would be receiving money for their efforts - in small payments, over a period of time. This could encourage people to post things that are important to them, without them having the fear that others are just going to profit from their hard work with out giving anything back.

The money would come from new members who join - or donations. Contributors could also pay a fee which would be payed back over time.

-----------This forum is something special - especially when it is compared to other forums.

But when I here that some people are not posting their work for fear of it being stolen, something has already been lost. And what has been accomplished then?



Edited to say (plus top comment) - It seems like some people are focusing on trying to catch and punish those who have crossed the line of decency.  And, I'm not even saying that my suggestion above is a good one.  And I'm only posting because I do not agree with those who are saying that we should just let this pass. The scenario that we have observed will probably happen again, then what? 

[mojotron]

...
But when I here that some people are not posting their work for fear of it being stolen, something has already been lost. And what has been accomplished then?
...

I know that is the case, for some - well a lot, but a there are other reasons why people don't post all things, or post less then they might want to:

1) At least in my case I think it also takes time to prepare an idea for others to consume as well as interacting with people with questions, also some people have the expectation that you are compelled to help them learn how to build it....

That has not prevented me from posting more design stuff, but it has throttled my efforts to encapsulate designs into a presentable format and post them a bit. It's just a bit of work. I have a 'swiss-army-knife' kind of overdrive/distortion design that I have used and loved for over a year+1/2 now and not posted yet - just for this reason. I have some time the first week in April and I will likely post it then.... I'm calling it "ForumStew"

2) I have reverse engineered a few kind-of unique, "still-in-production", pedals and have not posted them because it's not within the rules of the forum - but some of the ideas have been discussed - nothing revolutionary anyway.

3) Sometimes I have some good ideas that I have put some work into but had not panned out yet - this sort of gets down to a time issue as well - and a lot of times I would really like to open up the design to get other's opinions/thoughts - without a lot of "Why isn't it soup yet" kinds of posts... Does anyone else feel like they would want to participate in more of a purely collaborative environment?

I'm thinking that, while we talk about controlling access to the ideas, I see that perhaps to get more designing going on, we should enable people that want to concentrate on collaboration - without tangential opinions or pressure to complete an idea before it's time. One thing that might be a good idea is to create an area of pure collaboration, with the understanding that once the idea is finished it would be turned out to the general forum. I'm not sure if such an area would be able to be open to all, but perhaps a sub-forum that was only open to those who wanted to participate.

[A.S.P.]

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=58218.msg453775#msg453775

That kind of language sounds disgusting to me, too!   




"wave" "wave" "wave"




BTW, was THIS
that thread,
or will this become the one?










and never forget: "the secret of walking on the water is knowing where the rocks are, baby"

[markm]