Complete basic questions

Started by the-bna, July 30, 2007, 11:25:33 PM

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the-bna

Hey, I'm new to this whole world. And obviously I'm a bit confused.

How do you know how to design a given cirquit? What does a cap or a resistor do to the signal, and how do you know which values the different components should have?

And what are these operational amps ? Are they just a fancy term for the part of a stompbox that amplifies the signal, or what?

I've had a look at the beginner's projects, but confused me there, was why these parts did that and so on. Is there anywhere on the internet that I can read about these things, without all the techy terms I don't know yet?

km-r

Look at it this way- everyone rags on air guitar here because everyone can play guitar.  If we were on a lawn mower forum, air guitar would be okay and they would ridicule air mowing.

96ecss

Here are a few places to start.

www.geofex.com
www.muzique.com
http://guitartone.net/buildeffects.htm

Dave

petemoore

How do you know how to design a given cirquit?
 Figure out what is or can be known, and apply it.
 What does a cap or a resistor do to the signal, and how do you know which values the different components should have?
 caps block DC, allow AC [waveforms] to pass, depending on...         ...they start attenuating lower frequencies [which of course are closer to DC which is 0 frequency].

And what are these operational amps ?

 They have active and passive parts in them, and amplify, check out an opamp schematic.
  Are they just a fancy term for the part of a stompbox that amplifies the signal, or what?
 You can call it an amp chip or IC, but operational amplifier is what opamp is short for.
  I've had a look at the beginner's projects, but confused me there, was why these parts did that and so on.
  Is there anywhere on the internet that I can read about these things, without all the techy terms I don't know yet?
 you'll want to get to know them, I used wikepedia and some 'guru' program [not on this computer] which had definitions, often times having a printed sheet and a descriptions/addendums/notes sheet to help work through the schematic or whatever helps alot. I printed the 'Austin treble blaster' article, and used numerous support references to try to hack my way through some of the 'thicker' parts.
 Much of the math can be glanced over and worked around, though I challenge myself occasionally to do some of the 'curvy' math, or at least understand...which way 'things' go [as in up or down] at least.
 Reads are where it's at. FAQ, Simple mods and tricks, if you follow some hidden links, and type in 'how does a transistor work' you'll find tutorials on how caps and resistors work also.
 caps are frequency specific, as such can be used for voicing, [blocking treble or bass or both or opposite] and block DC, resistors are used to set up bias networks which control DC bias on actives, and also used to 'resist' in other ways, pots are...two variable resistors connected, the wiper represents this connection, either side [outside lugs of the pot] will have resistance to the wiper move in the opposite direction to the other side [one sides resistance rises, the other sides resistance value falls].
 Another way to learn of course is with a DMM, a pot, a battery, some resistors..circuits of various types and related measurements of experiments.
 Bias a bipolar transistor, then make it's bias voltage move up/down, it took actually doing for me to remember which way does what.
 Study jfet's and Mosfets later...get to know basic components and work up a few simple circuits..try some mods, soon much of the mystery will become stuff you know, but reading and working on understanding circuits you're working on will guide you.
 Often enough it's over my head but, anything RG wrote, see additions to the FAQ.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

R.G.

QuoteHow do you know how to design a given cirquit? What does a cap or a resistor do to the signal, and how do you know which values the different components should have?
That's a whole lot like walking into a professional football training camp and saying "How do you do this quarterbacking stuff? How do you know when to pass, when to punt, when to hold the ball and when to hand off?"

The answer is the same. To do anything that can respectably be called design, you have to first know what components exist, how they interact and how to compute those interactions, and a fair amount of underlying math to lubricate the process. Then there's experience to accumulate.

QuoteI've had a look at the beginner's projects, but confused me there, was why these parts did that and so on. Is there anywhere on the internet that I can read about these things, without all the techy terms I don't know yet?
That's the point - you need to learn what those techie terms you don't know yet mean. There's a reason the techie terms exist - they are a precise language for describing something that is not simple and obvious.

I'm not trying to discourage you; instead, I'm trying to set your level of expectation to something realistic. People who are well prepared at a high school level with algebra and trig can get to designing simple circuits on their own in about two to three semesters of formal instruction. If you do it on your own, you may go faster or slower than that, but that's about what it takes for a sharp, interested person with good background. If you eat, sleep and breath circuits, analyzing them for fun for about 16 hours a day AND have a willing, patient and experienced teacher, you might get to some simple independent designs in less than a year.

Design is not easter-egging parts in to see what happens. It's the process of deciding you want a circuit to do this-and-such, then selecting from the many active and passive-circuit approaches to do what you intended to do when you started, and coming up with something that meets your original objectives. A designer typically has 95-99% of the circuit correct on paper before they ever touch a part. That 1% to 5% that they have wrong is their continuing education program from Mother Nature.
R.G.

In response to the questions in the forum - PCB Layout for Musical Effects is available from The Book Patch. Search "PCB Layout" and it ought to appear.

oskar

Quote from: the-bna on July 30, 2007, 11:25:33 PM
Hey, I'm new to this whole world. And obviously I'm a bit confused.

How do you know how to design a given cirquit? What does a cap or a resistor do to the signal, and how do you know which values the different components should have?

And what are these operational amps ? Are they just a fancy term for the part of a stompbox that amplifies the signal, or what?

I've had a look at the beginner's projects, but confused me there, was why these parts did that and so on. Is there anywhere on the internet that I can read about these things, without all the techy terms I don't know yet?

I'll try not to repeat what's allready said in here but...
I started learning electronics by designing... and I don't recomend it at all. It will just halt your development in the art/hobby!
Whatever you do would be like inventing the wheel over and over...
Electronics is a HUGE field to explore! But the basics are really allmost simple... Ohms and Kirchoffs laws...

My recommendations to you...
1. Just continue to build kits and catch up a little here and there. And don't stop!
2. A schematic can be extremely complex... But you can allways break it down into smaller parts that are often very basic...
3. Don't try and understand what an electron is and how transistors work. That could mess up your head for good!
Good luck!       :P

oskar

GibsonGM

By learning to solder, and some basics for safety (#1!) and so as to not burn out parts, and acquiring the ability to read part values (resistors use a simple color code, etc), a person could start to assemble kits and simple circuits for DIY use.    With this experience comes the need to debug things and ask questions (what we are here for!), to use a meter and analyze  why something isn't working.  A good education can be had on Google by searching "basic electronics tutorial", for example. Reading in this forum and the links from it is also priceless.

After enough time goes by (maybe a year, I dunno), and enough builds, one starts to notice similar sections in circuits, known as building blocks.   All circuits are made up of these blocks, and you get to know what they do, and how changing parts of them affect the final output.  So you learn to mod the designs to make your personal sound and tone better!  Without a formal electronics course, it takes time and many mistakes, and failures, but with determination a person can learn how the vast majority of effects devices work.   Then, with baby steps, you can start to use the building blocks to improve an existing idea, or maybe come up with something really new and unique (pretty rare tho)! 

Just, start at the beginning and learn as much as you can!  Many people in here have only been doing this for a couple of years, but as you can see from the posts, have really dug in and learned a lot.  You can too, if you stick with it!
:o)
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the-bna

Thanks for all the answers! Pretty quick responses you get here  :icon_cool:

oskar

And wow, most important of all...
The more stupid a question seems, the more it needs to be asked...     :)