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Phase 90 debug

Started by Timebutt, August 31, 2007, 07:42:43 AM

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Timebutt

Hi,
I just finished my Phase 90 this morning using the vero layout from the layouts gallery, but when turning on the effect it remains so awfully quiet ... meaning I get no sound through the circuit at all: no hum, no noise, ... but also no bass :/

I measured all of the voltages but I don't know how to interprete them (I'm new to using IC's though it didn't cause troubles with my Orange Squeezer). I do see that the voltage 1,53V seems to be popping up everywhere: all of the 2n5952 transistors seem to read 1,53V at drain, gate and source so I don't think that can be correct? The only problem I have is that I don't know what to do with these numbers, maybe somebody else can help me read these voltages and tell me what could be going wrong?

IC1:
pin 1: 1,54V
pin 2: 1,53V
pin 3: 1,53V
pin 4: 0V
pin 5: 1,47V
pin 6: 1,31V
pin 7: 1,33V
pin 8: 9,04V

IC2:
pin 1: 1,34V
pin 2: 1,43V
pin 3: 1,53V
pin 4: 0V
pin 5: 1,53V
pin 6: 1,35V
pin 7: 1,35V
pin 8: 9,04V

IC3:
pin 1: 1,35V
pin 2: 1,35V
pin 3: 1,53V
pin 4: 0V
pin 5: 1,53V
pin 6: 1,36V
pin 7: 1,36V
pin 8: 9,04V

Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 (2N5952)
D: 1,53V
S: 1,53V
G: 1,53V

Q5 (2N4152)
C: 0,30V
B: 1,07V
E: 1,53V

One thing to note: I did use a 22uF instead of a 15uF capacitor because I don't have a 15uF available but I don't think this makes a difference?
All help is greatly appreciated, thanks  :)
Completed Projects: Gus Smalley Booster, Modded Russian Big Muff, Orange Squeezer, BYOC Vibrato, Phase 90

petemoore

  15uf works, maybe you like better even.
  pin 1: 1,54V
pin 2: 1,53V
pin 3: 1,53V
pin 4: 0V
pin 5: 1,47V
pin 6: 1,31V
pin 7: 1,33V
pin 8: 9,04V
  Pin 4 and pin 8's on all these opamps look good, Gnd. and V+ shown on all, all the other pins should be more like around 4.5v

IC2:
pin 1: 1,34V
pin 2: 1,43V
pin 3: 1,53V
pin 4: 0V
pin 5: 1,53V
pin 6: 1,35V
pin 7: 1,35V
pin 8: 9,04V
 
IC3:
pin 1: 1,35V
pin 2: 1,35V
pin 3: 1,53V
pin 4: 0V
pin 5: 1,53V
pin 6: 1,36V
pin 7: 1,36V
pin 8: 9,04V
one of these opamps is an LFO driver, and should have a ..LFO voltage on it [rises and falls slowly when speed knob is turned near minimum], but all pins showing >1.6v aren't biased
Q1, Q2, Q3 and Q4 (2N5952)
D: 1,53V
S: 1,53V
G: 1,53V
  I'm not particularly sure what voltages to look for, but all three pins @ the same potential is never correct. Because all these pins are same, suspicion of cross connections is warranted, and would have to be eliminated [recommend close in light and Mag Glass for finding that]
Q5 (2N4152)
C: 0,30V
B: 1,07V
E: 1,53V
  Look on the schematic, if there's a voltage divider, test it.
  It is certain that something which is common to all the opamps +/- inputs and output pins is causing the low voltage bias's.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

Timebutt

Thanks for your help: I started looking for crossconnections and I believe I have found one (if crossconnection is when two adjecent strips are connected right?) but I have no idea on what's causing it!
On my circuit, rows 'i' and 'j' are connected (http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/v/Grooveyard/mxr_phase_90.gif.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1) but I don't know how or why! I have run it down with my magnifying glass but I don't seem to find an impurity or anything that could possible connect the two strips. The problem is I don't exactly know what to look for: am I looking for a small piece of solder or anything else that could conduct? What about flux?
Could it be that all of the incorrect voltages are caused by the simple fact that these two strips are connected?
Completed Projects: Gus Smalley Booster, Modded Russian Big Muff, Orange Squeezer, BYOC Vibrato, Phase 90

mdh

You're looking for anything conductive that could short those strips together.  Flux isn't going to create a dead short, but solder or a bit of component lead could.  I would pay particular attention to any place where components are soldered to holes in the same column on adjacent strips.  Also, since you built this on vero, you should go through and scrupulously check that you made all necessary trace cuts.  Some of them are hidden under components on the layout, so you may have missed them the first time through.

Timebutt

I checked all of the connections, no crossconnections for as far as I can see ... I did find a jumper that was not connected very well which fixed the op-amp incorrect values: I'm now reading 'healthy' voltages of around 4,35V on all pins.

This still leaves out the transistor problem: I'm still reading incorrect drain, gate and source values they're still all the same.
It's just so weird: rows 'i' and 'j' still appear to be connected if I use the continuity check on my DMM but I'm reading 47,3 ohms, why? There is certainly no resistor with this value connected, in fact there is only a capacitor that links the two strips so I shouldn't be reading any continuity at all right? This makes me wonder ... why 47 ohms and what does it mean? I cleaned the non-conductive strip between row 'i' and 'j' already multiple times with a sharp knife so nothing should be left there at all, or maybe I'm looking for a tiny piece of solder that can't be removed using a knife? What's my best shot at 'cleaning' this strip then?

Oh: from the moment I started reading correct voltages on the op-amps I get a fairly loud 'peeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep' output signal but nothing anywhere near a bass signal ...
Completed Projects: Gus Smalley Booster, Modded Russian Big Muff, Orange Squeezer, BYOC Vibrato, Phase 90

petemoore

  The 47ohm reading is likely a misnomer on the DMM, if you're getting beeping in continuity mode..where no connection is shown, that's enough to set to finding it.
  The Dern finding it is the tricky part, and the same/same voltages on the Qpins have to be put right of course. Something is causing the strange voltage readings.
  But making the board reflect exactly what the schematic shows means it Has to work, any deviation means it Can't work, them's the rules she made, cant be bent.
 
Convention creates following, following creates convention.