Guitar->Comp->Dist OR Guitar->Dist ->Comp?

[rogeryu_ph]

Guys,
Which set up is best?

Thanks,
Roger

[Papa_lazerous]

how long is a piece of string??

my pedal board has Dirt before comp right now, I like it like that not to say my way is the right way.  Have a play and see what you like the most, thats the most important thing.  effects order is something thats not right or wrong

[Processaurus]

Generally I would put the compression before the distortion, because distortion gets rid of dynamics by clipping off the tops and bottoms of the signal going in, and hence could be seen as the crudest form of compression.  So the compression after it won't do anything to limit volume spikes, because there aren't any.  It'll probably just bring up noise when you aren't playing.  Having the compression before gives you the smoothish sustain like you'd get with a really saturated distortion, but at a lower, less gnarly sounding gain setting.

As an exception I suspect the subtle sounding orange squeezer would be better after distortion though, because it doesn't give crazy sustain, and because it is so noisy (when the noise gets amplified by the gain in the following distortion circuit).  The dynacomp/ross type compressors I personally like before distortion, I think they are a fantastic overdrive accessory for that supa sustain...

[Pushtone]

You took the words right out of my mouth Processaurus about the Ross comp in front and the Orange Squeezer at the end.
The OS does effect the sound after distortion while the Ross seems to have little effect except raising noise.
Perhaps a low gain distortion or a booster would be better choice of effects to place ahead of the Ross comp.


One effect I do use a compressor AFTER is an envelope filter.
The auto-wha pedals I built can have huge ear piercing dynamics swings. Especially in the midrange.
The Ross or OS comp after something like the MXR EF can be just the thing to even out the level so those crazy filters are usable.
Then I feed the signal into my distortion du jour.

Boom chika wow wow.

[bipedal]

Good point made about distortion being a form of compression...

Personally, I haven't found a compelling need for added compression if I'm playing overdriven or distorted parts.  Typically, the only time I use compression is for clean or semi-clean parts -- gives a bit more fullness and balance when switching between single note / arpreggiated pieces and strummed chords.

My 2 cents on your question:
Distortion->Compression will introduce more noise into the signal, but that order will also retain the 'touch sensitivity' of the distortion circuit more effectively than the reverse order.  (Obviously, the characteristics of your distortion have to be taken into account with this...)

Distortions clip differently when presented with a quiet vs. a loud input signal; therefore, limiting the dynamic range of the signal going into the distortion (by routing Compression->Distortion) will reduce the variability of the distortion's clipped tone.  This can be good or bad depending upon the sound you're seeking.

- Jay

[Mark Hammer]

Whenever one ponders the order of effects, there are several basic questions to address:
1) How will this affect the performance of the devices in question at the individual level?
2) How will this affect the performance of my rig at the system level?

Something may appear, on paper at least, to improve the performance of a particular pedal while at the same time eroding performance at the overall level.  Case in point is that of distortion and compression.  Compressors generally operate in the following manner: boost the hell out of anything and everything unless the input signal says to turn things down.  Whatever arrives at the input jack IS boosted until circumstances dictate otherwise.  That "whatever" can be hum, hiss, finger glisses, radio stations or whatnot.  At least 20 times a year, we field queries here about seemingly underperforming compressors,and the majority have to do with "How do I make it less noisy?".  The answer to that question is "Feed it a MUCH cleaner input signal".  As it happens, distortion pedals also work by boosting the hell out of anything and everything it sees at its input jack.  Sadly, it NEVER turns the gain down.  What this means is that if you feed your distortion pedal a poor quality signal, or if the distortion pedal is not well-shielded or otherwise designed or built to keep noise to a blessed minimum, when you stop playing, the distortion pedal will output  nothing but seriously amplified garbage, and the compressor will take that audio garbage, interpret it as low-level signal and boost the daylights out of it...yet again.  And EVERYBODY wants to hear that (one of the many reasons why Lou Reed's "Metal Machine Music" continues to be such a monster seller ).

So, what would appear, on paper to provide a signal path that results in a touch-responsive distortion with smooth sustain characteristics, ends up being something a little different.

Now, if you CAN provide a pristine signal to both the distortion and compressor, and the distortion itself still retains enough dynamic variation in its output to result in some value-added compression, then go for it by all means.  Just remember that the recommendation is NOT a categorical one, but will depend very much on the properties of the distortion, the compressor, the settings, and the input signal.  The suggestion to reverse the order (comp->dist) is predicated on the fairly regular observation that:
a) better overall noise performance is attained by that arrangement,
b) more articulate use of the compression is attained by feeding it a signal with maximum dynamic variation,
c) more predictable performance is obtained from a distortion when the signal can be held some fairly consistent distance from the clipping threshold.

Pushtone and Processaurus' comments, however, are quite appropos.  And in some instances, it's not a bad idea to have a particular category of effect available to you at several different points in your signal path.  I've often commented on the usefulness of having noise gates with different settings or properties at the input and output of one's path leading up to the amplifier.  The cost-effectiveness of the DIY route makes that possible.    Unfortunately, the overpopulated snakepit that is most pedalboards may not.

[bent]

Which set up is best?

the one that sound the best to your ears.....simple as that....

bent

[PerroGrande]

the one that sound the best to your ears.....simple as that....

+1

[Ben N]

I like them both, but:
There is no point in putting compression after medium-2-high gain distortion. That really does just amplify noise. The only place for that is with a really touch-sensitive overdrive, like an amp just at saturation, where you can really get a lot of variation with varying poic attack and the volume knob, where the OD is fairly low noise, and the output of the OD is not set to amp-boosting levels. You also can't set the compression too high. Then you get the tonal variations from the guitar with a nice, even output level.  I have done this with a Marshall ED1 after various TS variants to pleasing effect.

Of course there have been lots of threads on this, and one of the suggestions I had before was to rig up a compressor with separate sidechain for this purpose--let the quiet pre-OD signal control the compressor, and maybe use something like the Q&D, with gating action, to get post-OD compression without a lot of added noise.

To my ears, choice of pickup before a compressor is more critical than whether the OD is ahead of the comp of behind it.

Ben

[rogeryu_ph]

Guys
Isn't it using compressor with distortion you could acheive longer sustain or prolong adlib like Santana 
I'm I right or do i need to drop this compressor project? Is this just for chord and country chicken picking use? Kindly correct me. I'm more of rock oriented and i'm fun of doing sustain notes usually at the last. My dirt boxes somehow short on sustain that I need.

Thanks,
Roger

[d95err]

A compressor before a distortion works well to add extra sustain to the sound without changing the character of the distorted sustained signal much (it will change the attack of the signal a bit though). Any compression I'd use after distortion, is the compression generated by a moderately pushed tube poweramp... 

[Mark Hammer]

Distortion pedals/circuits provide additional harmonic content as the signal increases beyond some threshold level.  Think of it as a really REALLY bad stereo that you can't turn up very far before it sounds awful, except that it is customized to make a guitar sound wonderful.  One the signal reaches that threshold, there is generally not much more dynamic range available and the level of the signal is essentially fixed.  You CAN increase the output volume, of course, but that occurs because of something that happens after the distortion.  When I say "level is fixed", I mean what comes out of the point where the clipping takes place.

Although there may be serious limits placed on the dynamics of the output, the quality of the tone depends on the dynamics of the input.  Not every single smidgen of your guitar signal reaches the critical threshold for producing distortion.  Indeed, in many instances, much of the decay portion of the note after you pick tends to fall well below that threshold.  Certainly we hear it as distortion, but it's a bit like the way the spectators at a football or hockey game seem to be a particular colour because a large number of them (though not all) are wearing the home team's colours.  Enough of the guitar signal meets the criteria for being clipped that it more or less all sounds like its clipping, but not all of it is.

Compressors are geared towards maintaining a fixed overall average signal level.  They trim back on the gain when there are peaks, and boost the gain when there are lulls.  Happily, they usually have a potential output level which is much greater than the input level.  What this means for us is that the signal presented to a distortion after the compressor can have an average level which more regularly falls at a certain point relative to the clipping threshold.  You can keep it just at the edge of clipping, or always above the threshold of clipping.  IN short, compression before a distortion provides the option for greater consistency in distortion tone.  And, because the compressor can maintain a very high overall average input signal to the distortion (i.e., it's a booster too), it has the potential to provide a more consistently intense distortion.  Naturally, HOW consistent each of these things will be depends on the settings and specs of the compressor and distortion.  The compressor's output level isn't ruler flat at any point, but you can still have degrees of consistency in the output level such that there is still some opportunity to pick harder and get a little more clipping from the distortion.

Despite all rumour to the contrary, NEITHER DEVICE PRODUCES SUSTAIN.  What they do is prevent variation in output level and that sounds like sustain.

Is it advantageous to feed a distortion with highly compressed signal?  That depends on your goal.  I like to think of distortion as being like additive synthesis, where the original waveform from the guitar is added to by force/virtue of the circuit and my picking.  The harmonic content is regulated by my hand, and can be introduced when I wish to make the musical point I wish to.  If compression and sitortion settings are used in too severe a manner, then my choice to vary the harmonic content to express what I wish at that moment becomes very limited.  In other words, it cuts off my options.

On the other hand, if I wanted to have a particular tone appllied to a chord for a lengthy period (e.g., as a drone tone that would be held while a slowly sweeping phaser or flanger completes a cycle or two), then high compression folllowed by distortion serves a bit like turning the guitar into a keyboard, where you can hold some keyts and maintain a given tone/chord, etc.

In a bar band context, certainly one of the things people like compressors for is their ability to deliver a signal whose dynamics are managed well enough that you don't need anyone to "ride the faders" just so the singer can be heard.

So, it's your choice how you wish to use them together.

[Ben N]

This is subjective, I guess, but the compressor -> distortion "violin" tone is one that is, to my ears, seductive at first, but tiresome after time, if you aren't judicious in its use. To use the Santana reference, imagine discovering Mark Knopfler after a decade of Santana--whoah! Who put all that tonal in a single guitar note? I imagine that is exactly what happened to old Carlos hisself when he recorded "I'm Winning."

Ben

[tranceracer]

To me it depends on the type of sound and control of which setup to use.  I "mostly" use my Comp after my distortion because I use my guitar's volume knob to control the amount of distortion (break-up).  The comp can keep the output levels constant and from getting to loud when I turn up the volume for more distortion without taking away too much dynamics.

I do sometimes switch to pre distortion using my "Dancing Queen" ABBA switch box to get that "squished" super compressed even leveled distortion sound too!

-tR

[Ben N]

That would be a great feature to add to a compressor--an fx loop along with a "Juggler" switch.