true bypass looper question.

[DBDbadreligion]

my question is,  if i make a true bypass looper with loops for each effects pedal.  will this make my pedals run like they are in parallel instead of series.
i think it will but i just wanted to make sure of it.

thanks alot for helping me with my noob question.

nick

[MikeH]

No.  They will still be in series.  The only way to put them in parallel is with some sort of mixer or splitter, that takes your signal, splits it in 2, runs each through an effect, and then blends them back together.

[DBDbadreligion]

well is there a schematic for either oone of those?

[darron]

wiat, do you WANT them to run in parrallel?

if you want the normal series, then give this a read to explain how true bypass works:

LINK

treat "effect in" as what people normally call "send", and tread "effect out" as "return". if you need something more specific then let me know and i'll draw it up with exact connections to the jack terminals etc.

if you want a series diagram then let me know about that too.

[DBDbadreligion]

well i am just interested in running my effects in parallel.  yesturday i was playing and one of the patch cables on my effects chain crapped out.  i was thinking, "boy if only these were running in parallel, then that one cable wouldn't stop all sound from coming out of the amp."  I really just want to make it (if it's possible) to have it to where if one cable craps out it won't be a treat to my entire pedalboard if that makes any sense.  I hope this helps explain my interest.

Nick Landt

DBDbadreligion@gmail.com

[ambulancevoice]

do thou want them to be in parrell but only one effect is used by one signal input at a time, with the signal being switched between effects? or do you want the signal going through both pedals at the same time to one or two output(s)

[darron]

so you want all of your pedals to work as normal, but for a clean signal to go through if one of your cables breaks?

well... in theory i suppose you could try connecting a extra lead running in parallel from your guitar, and have the hot lead go through a 1m, or 2m2 resistor, then into the amp. that way the signal should just about all go through your effects, but then if there's a break go through clean through the resistor without too much change too the tone. it will dull it down by heaps but i suppose it might be better than a dead mute.

[MikeH]

I think what you're looking for is the "splitter blender" at Run Off Groove.  It's 2 effects loops that are in parallel and a blend knob that blends between them.

http://www.runoffgroove.com/splitter-blend.html

edit:  Just realized what you said about a cable crapping out.  This project will only be effective if one of the loops has a break in connection.  Then the other loop would still function.  Of course, thats also the deal with a TB box with multible loops.  If the cable coming out of your guitar or going to your amp craps out, that's it- no way to prevent signal interruption.  Solution:  Buy better cables and replace them when they get worn.

[DBDbadreligion]

but with a true bypass loop if the cables the effects are connected to crap out, then the overal guitar signal is not affected correct?
that is what I want.  I know the cables going from my amp and the cable going from my guitar won't crap out.  They are monster cable.  My problem is my patch cables they are not of the best quality and crap out every now and then.

Maybe this will help explain what I want.

Nick

[MikeH]

Yes.  With a TB box, if any of the pedals or cables in the loop crap out, you can turn the loop off, and your signal will still pass through.

[DBDbadreligion]

ok, thanks alot.  that's what I thought.  so It is kind of like a set of Christmas lights running in parallel in a sense.  Well that helps me alot.

NIck

[greigoroth]

Great little pdf that Darron!

Good for clueless people such as myself!

wiat, do you WANT them to run in parrallel?

if you want the normal series, then give this a read to explain how true bypass works:

LINK

treat "effect in" as what people normally call "send", and tread "effect out" as "return". if you need something more specific then let me know and i'll draw it up with exact connections to the jack terminals etc.

if you want a series diagram then let me know about that too.

[darron]

thanks greigoroth. i'm glad that people make use of that stuff (:

[MikeH]

ok, thanks alot.  that's what I thought.  so It is kind of like a set of Christmas lights running in parallel in a sense.  Well that helps me alot.

NIck

In a sense, but not really.  The thing is, a TB box isn't buffered or anything, so when it's off, the signal passes straight through from one jack to the other, and regard less of what happens in the loop; bad cables, pedal shorting out, shark attack- the signal still passes.  It's still in series, but the loop is cut off from your signal chain.

[DBDbadreligion]

ok, thanks alot.  that's what I thought.  so It is kind of like a set of Christmas lights running in parallel in a sense.  Well that helps me alot.

NIck

In a sense, but not really.  The thing is, a TB box isn't buffered or anything, so when it's off, the signal passes straight through from one jack to the other, and regard less of what happens in the loop; bad cables, pedal shorting out, shark attack- the signal still passes.  It's still in series, but the loop is cut off from your signal chain.

alright thanks, that is good to know.  I may be building a six loop TB strip at some point, probally after christmas.

[Mark Hammer]

Keep in mind that when running pedals in parallel, you need to pay attention to phase.  If path A is phase-reversed, compared to path B, then when you combine them in parallel there will be cancellation.  In essence your entire signal chain becomes one massive phase shifter, though perhaps not quite as musical.

This "problem" of parallel configurations is easily solved with a simple inverting/noninverting buffer, but unless one can either assure that all pedals are "phase coherent" (that is they ALL invert phase at the output or they ALL do not invert phase at the output), a person would need to keep track of what's on, what's off, what phase-inverts, what doesn't, and so on.

BTW, not seemingly discussedhere are what I like to call "nested loops".  That is, one loop inside another.  So, imagine the pedal sequence: compressor-> EQ-> fuzz->phaser->chorus.  The user may wish to use EQ and fuzz together as a kind of "group" and be able to step on one switch that bypasses both of those at once, leaving only the compressor, phaser, and chorus (one or more of which might be on individually).  This is essentially one loop inside of another, and can also be done with a pair of 3PDT stompswitches.  It just involves wiring up the connections between switches and corresponding jacks a little differently.  It can be VERY useful when you find that a certain tone you love relies on the joint action of several pedals.  Note that you can still bypass individual pedals within loops, whether they are in parallel, in series, nested, or any combination.  The selection of a loop merely means that the physical path through that pedal is brought into play.  Whatever the state of that pedal is at the moment - on or off - is your business.