Of course it should work but...

Started by petemoore, March 04, 2010, 12:57:20 AM

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petemoore

  I can't get a bias and can't figure out a bias scheme for:
  http://sound.westhost.com/project06.htm
 
  Because the inputs are all DC blocked from being biased to Gnd. [which is between the rails], and there are no DC blocking caps between stages.
  I could insert DC blocker between the opamps and reference the - inputs to ground ?
  Built as shown but with 1 x TL082 opamp.
  Here's the voltages:
1 .042
2  .74
3   .34
4   V- = -11.26v
5   .78
6   1.2
7   2.02
8   V+ =  +11.26v
   Max1044 providing the nice, split rails.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

geertjacobs

#1
-- responded too fast

cpm


petemoore

 :icon_wink:
  Forgot to mention that...late night...saw it, went past it, forgot to mention it in the post.
  Still I can't see how that would bias what looks to me to be a second stage that has no DC reference except the first stage.
  so 1/2 of the first opamp has a bias reference resitance path, 49k2 should pull to center for that pin.
  But then there's the other pin, the -, which has no DC reference point that I can make out, it looks and measures to be just kind of floating wherever.
  Then there's the no interstage DC blocker.
  Then stage 2 looks like a bunch of DC floating going on, which jibe with the opamp voltages I'm seeing.
  The resistances, insulations and connections on my board seem to be measuring what the schematic shows on the diagram.
  I should have studied the diagram more closely as there are no notes on why it should run, I've never read anything that registered as to why it would.
  FTR: I"m sure it does. Everything else on that site has been well ironed, interesting circuits pressed into service, tested, improved etc. very good and all.
  I just don't see how this bias set up would work, or how to work with it.
  and I think I'm going to take the board and bias it anyway in a way I know might work.
  No big deal I just don't have it working and can't see how it'd work.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

R.G.

The biasing in that circuit is the classic one for opamps with bipolar power supplies.

An opamp has a gain from the + input of (1+Rf/Ri) where Ri is the resistance on the - input to the reference voltage, in this case ground. The - input has a resistance to ground of Ri plus the DC resistance of those capacitors. The caps are theoretically open circuits at DC, so the total Ri is infinite. This makes Rf/Ri be zero, and the gain at DC be simply unity. An opamp with an inverting input which does not have a DC path to some DC voltage will have an output which follows the + input very closely.

In this case, that happens to be "ground". You can ignore that it's really ground, and simply note that it's a fixed voltage in the middle between the two power supplies. The first opamp's output will have a DC level wherever that input 47K resistor is tied. The second opamp has the same feature; it's - input is open at DC, so its output follows the DC level of the first opamp, which is the same as "ground".

Both are biased to ground by having a DC gain of 1.0 and a DC level applied to the + input of "ground".
R.G.

In response to the questions in the forum - PCB Layout for Musical Effects is available from The Book Patch. Search "PCB Layout" and it ought to appear.

petemoore

  Typical...
  Passes these tests: 
  Power Supply
  Resistance
  Continuity
  Insulation
  And Fails these:
  Voltage
  Signal path
  ...tiring of the fruitless, blind approach on this one...I can't think of any new tests to re-repeat, don't even know how to interpret the old ones results.
  Searching for something close, I have very nice ''bowtie capacitors'', 2 x BTB electrolytics with a poly across that [bipolar and good HF process].
Convention creates following, following creates convention.