No wonder we build our own pedals!!

[Andy]

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&krd=1&from=R8&MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=fuzz+face

Can you believe these prices?

[Mike Nichting]

If I had the cash I would by an Old Fuzz Face for the piece of history that comes with it not to mention the vibe.
I would have a hard time paying that much on Ebay without playing it though.

They are so cool looking~!!

Mike

[Peter Snowberg]

Now add to that the statistic of only one in 20 original faces having the magic (or any real magic) and at least I start running for places like Small Bear, Mouser, and Digikey.  

[Johan]

also, remember that GE transistors degrade over time and loose about half their gain over a period of 25years. so even if you got your hands on one that was great in -69. it probably dont even work today....so if you plan on using one, get a dunlop and tweak it, and use the remaining 300$ on strings, beer and flower for your sweetie...

Johan

[Rodgre]

Notice that no one is really paying those crazy prices.

Notice that one ebay seller who has all the gear at about three times what they're worth and then NEVER EVER EVER sells anything.

If you look at their "see other auctions" page, you will see hundreds of pieces of gear, and of those hundreds, I would guess that four have BIDS on them!

I know that "Holy Grail" pedals like Fuzz Faces, TS-808s and such claim a few high price tickets, but I personally don't know anyone who has paid more than a couple hundred for any pedal. My friends who have such pedals, myself included, got them cheap. Otherwise, we wouldn't have them.

That HYPE is why a lot of us build pedals. There is WAY too much hype around those pedals. We all know that you can build yourself a Tube Screamer and tweak and tweak and tweak and come up with a hundred variations that all sound great. There really isn't (in my opinion, of course) anything particularly special about a vintage 808. Hell, I did a side by side comparison with a TS5, TS10, TS9 and TS808 and the differences were microscopic. Maybe this was just my experience.

So I build pedals, because sometimes it's fun, but also because I know that a Fuzz Face circuit should never be more than $20 worth of parts, and other than the labor.... I would personally never pay $400 for one.

Roger

[Ammscray]

If I had the cash I would by an Old Fuzz Face for the piece of history that comes with it not to mention the vibe.
I would have a hard time paying that much on Ebay without playing it though.

They are so cool looking~!!

Mike

Yeah to me there's something to be said about having the real deal with certain pedals, it depends on what you like and also when you grew up!...it's more than just the sound, it's the look, and the fact that this thing has been laying around for 35+ years with the same components soldered together, and that maybe somebody famous played throught it, whatever...I'll never get rid of the originals I have, some I got for a few dollars, some for alot...I'm not advocating paying dealer and collector prices because I don't and I'm not either one...I play everything I own...

BUT, there are people paying these prices, make no mistake...ebay goes through phases depending on the state of the economy, and it's pretty slow right now, but here in some of the vintage guitarshops in Hollywood even a few years back I've seen people paying more than what you see on ebay right now...unfortunately lots of them are professionals that don't really play guitar that well but have stupid money laying around so they can afford it...this is the same thing that's happened with vintage guitars (don't get me going on that one) but alot of them are far out of the reach of players unfortunately...and also I meant no offense to any professionals here...

 I worked in one store where I saw a guy plop down $1500 for a beat up Tyco octavia, same price for a univibe, and also as much as $600 for a red FF from 1969...Clyde McCoy's forget it, one sold on ebay recently for a grand!!! I remember seeing prince pay $300 back in 1988 for a Colorsound Wah!!!  Maybe it's all his fault

Anyways, making pedals is fun especially when you get close to nailing a certain one you like but there are certain ones that no matter what, it won't sound the same as an original when you build it...there's too many reasons why it couldn't...(I just call it, "the Stradivarius Principle") and the hammond box don't have that vibe like the old beat up round red case let's face it...

  I'm grateful I had/have my original ones, because that's what I used to copy when I cloned my first pedal (a Vox Tonebender) some 22-odd years ago...there was no internet and you couldn't throw a rock out the window and hit a FF schematic or a pedal guru on the head like you can now...it's all good...

[Mike Nichting]

yeah, like I said, I would have to play through one to make sure it sounded like the best one I had ever played before I plopped down $300 for a FF.
You may be able to build them right and left but it's the "VIBE" of having an old original that I like.
It's the same as a 1957 strat. You can have one built today out of the same woods or better, better pickups etc. etc but it's not the same as the original as far as vibe goes. There is just something that really inspires me when I get a chance to own an original that SOUNDS good.
If it is an original that sounds like shit than I'll leave that to someone else. Due to all of the hype on a lot of pedals they don't always stand up to being the ultimate pedal or tone.
So, I guess what I am saying is that if an old pedal sopunds good then thats where the magic and vibe are, but I wouldn't buy one just to buy one and get it home to have it sound worse than that Fuzz you just paid $10 for at the local pawn shop.
It's just cool to own a piece of rock and roll history, you know?? :-)

Other than that, building pedals is the best way to go :-)

Be well all~!!!

Mike

[Ammscray]

yeah, like I said, I would have to play through one to make sure it sounded like the best one I had ever played before I plopped down $300 for a FF.
You may be able to build them right and left but it's the "VIBE" of having an old original that I like.
It's the same as a 1957 strat. You can have one built today out of the same woods or better, better pickups etc. etc but it's not the same as the original as far as vibe goes. There is just something that really inspires me when I get a chance to own an original that SOUNDS good.
If it is an original that sounds like shit than I'll leave that to someone else. Due to all of the hype on a lot of pedals they don't always stand up to being the ultimate pedal or tone.
So, I guess what I am saying is that if an old pedal sopunds good then thats where the magic and vibe are, but I wouldn't buy one just to buy one and get it home to have it sound worse than that Fuzz you just paid $10 for at the local pawn shop.
It's just cool to own a piece of rock and roll history, you know?? :-)

Other than that, building pedals is the best way to go :-)

Be well all~!!!

Mike

In my "experience" the early Arbiter germanium FF's are very hit and miss, and to tell you the truth I don't like any of those sound-wise anyways...always muddy no matter what you do to them...bad transistor choice in the first place...but the silicon ones from 69 that use the BC108C are usually very consistent...if they don't sound good it's usually just a resistor out of tolerance or something simple, but the trannys are usually always good and you can't go wrong with that model...

 the later silicon versions are pretty stable and consistent too but the change to different silicon trannys are responsible for the change in tone and bad reputations with alot of those...they're OK but not great...

If you're ever looking for a good vintage pedal, look me up, that's one of the things I do on the side is find really good sounding and playing vintage amps, pedals and guitars for people going out on the road and in the studio around the L.A. area...  


For instance I just recently found a rare royal blue FF from 69 with the original TeleFunKen BC108C's in it for a customer of mine for $250...not a bad price IMO...

[petemoore]

You could buy one FF, vintage pretty... and sweet 'or' sour for 300...
 Or you could build 10+ FF's, tweek the tar out of the one [4?] you find most appealing...then start on the Tonebenders [like me]
 See Jimi had Roger working with him on this sound thing...you won't be getting that...no matter what you're paying....
 I would bet many of the buyers of the expenxive units aren't even messing around with the input cap value...
 9 times out of 8 you'll most probably be getting more of what you want, and less of what you don't by building the FF's...course I've never owned an original, but I heard one once and it wanted to sound better...got beat bad by every other [Dist + etc] fuzz on hand
 I couldn't see having one without an adjusted Q2 collector R value, socketted tranny's and incap...the variability of this ckt is extremely well documented...IMO to get the magic working 'right' you have to sort through many commercial FF's [$and time]...or tweak it for your setup..aside from dumb luck, it's these are the only two ways I know of to do it.
  I'm sure there are many unknowing shoppers that see 'original', 'sought after' etc., coupled with the high price, and thinnk that's g'ot to be 'it'...and it is as long as you're willing to settle for whatever 'it' turns out to be for ya...Looks kool anyway...'who cares'

[Ammscray]

You could buy one FF, vintage pretty... and sweet 'or' sour for 300...
 Or you could build 10+ FF's, tweek the tar out of the one [4?] you find most appealing...then start on the Tonebenders [like me]
 See Jimi had Roger working with him on this sound thing...you won't be getting that...no matter what you're paying....
 I would bet many of the buyers of the expenxive units aren't even messing around with the input cap value...
 9 times out of 8 you'll most probably be getting more of what you want, and less of what you don't by building the FF's...course I've never owned an original, but I heard one once and it wanted to sound better...got beat bad by every other [Dist + etc] fuzz on hand
 I couldn't see having one without an adjusted Q2 collector R value, socketted tranny's and incap...the variability of this ckt is extremely well documented...IMO to get the magic working 'right' you have to sort through many commercial FF's [$and time]...or tweak it for your setup..aside from dumb luck, it's these are the only two ways I know of to do it.
  I'm sure there are many unknowing shoppers that see 'original', 'sought after' etc., coupled with the high price, and thinnk that's g'ot to be 'it'...and it is as long as you're willing to settle for whatever 'it' turns out to be for ya...Looks kool anyway...'who cares'

Man I think you missed every point I was tryin' to make...

and you've never owned an original...

and the one you heard didn't sound good (you didn't say which model and there were many) so it was probably one of the later ones or just needed to be repaired...

Your whole post was based on hearsay, and from no real experience...you're just repeating "in your opinion" what you've heard a million other people already say about FF's...if YOU had gone through tons of them and only found one good one then that would be different...but you've never even messed with one... :roll: You've never compared your clones with a good original so how do you even know whether you're in the same ballpark!

I'll tell you what, you bring any of your clones over here, and if even one comes close to one of my untweaked originals, you can have it...that's how much I know it won't...no offense    but next time talk about what you've done, not what you heard from somebody else...valuable information comes from EXPERIENCE and long hours of R&D, NOT hearsay...

And for the record, RM didn't tweak Jimi's pedals as much as you think he did and as much as he says HE did, he was only there for small sporadic periods of time, and was even thrown out of the studio more than once when he persisted on tweaking a stock pedal that Jimi was very happy with already...

You ever heard his "classic fuzz" should be called "classic MUD"! If I had been Jimi and he made one of my FF's sound like that I would have thrown him out too...try and find a track with that tone on it

 Without mentioning any names, I've spoken to two different people in depth who were very present in the situation and they both de-bunked alot of the RM "mythology"...but hey since he was there, this gives him the right to say whatever he wants... :roll: if it helps him sell pedals all the power to him...