Russian subminiature tubes/valves

[Ben N]

There seem to be a flood of these on the market at the moment. Anybody know about the suitability of any of these types for our kinds of projects?
1J18B
1J29B/1J29B-V (a "universal" pentode)
1J24B (a HF type)
1P24B/1P24B-V (this one appears to be a power pentode)

They all seem to have low power requirements from what I could glean. Should one stay away from RF/HF types for audio?

[PRR]

> Should one stay away from RF/HF types for audio?

No.

Do you have links to datasheets?

[frequencycentral]

There are a few projects about that use some of them, here and at 'the other place'.

Other types that look interesting are 6N16B-V and 6N17B-V dual triodes, medium mu and high mu respectively, with a 400ma heater, $28.50 for 10 on the bay!

[Ben N]

There are some datasheets out there (some linked from ebay posts, others Google-able), but they are in Russian, and are photocopies, hence not auto-translatable. A lot of the datasheets are available here.

[Brymus]

Could one of our Russian members translate this one please ? http://klausmobile.narod.ru/td/data/_1j29b.GIF
I picked up some of the 1J29B tubes a couple of months ago when getting Ge transistors.

[PRR]

> They all seem to have low power requirements from what I could glean.

Maybe the ones in your list.... I'm not energized to look them all up.

Generally the sub-Miniature tubes come in two types which often look the same.

1) Slightly thrifty versions of regular tubes. FC's "6N17B-V" is not very different from 12AT7. Equipment physical size is limited but power is available.

2) Tubes for hearing-aids and such. Power is VERY "expensive", thrift is essential. Most will be marked for 1.2V or 1.4V nominal filament voltage, intended for "1.5V" battery operation.

The "regular" tubes may be used like similar Miniatures. Note that in most gear, even a "big" Miniature is not 10% of the total box volume; switching to sub-minature does not really save space unless you have already gone crazy jamming it in.

The "hearing aid" tubes.... if you have never designed with naked filaments, then the cathode connections for multi-stage amps will be a whole new world to learn.

> $28.50 for 10

Interesting. But several tube warehouses have too-common TV tubes 10 for $10. Some of those odd-heater tubes are a real glut today.

So many tubes, so little time.

Tubes is tubes. None of them is going to make my playing a top-10 hit record.

[Zapp Brannigan]

Could one of our Russian members translate this one please ? http://klausmobile.narod.ru/td/data/_1j29b.GIF
I picked up some of the 1J29B tubes a couple of months ago when getting Ge transistors.

It is subminiature Hi freq entode, high durability, electrical parameters are^
Inter-electrode capacitance (pf)^
in.....5+/-0.6
out....3+/-0.4
continuous..does not exceed 0.005
plate-cathode...does not exceed 0.028

Nominal electrical data:
Vheater.....1,2 or 2,4  Iheater.....62 or 30 mA Vheater peak... 1,4 or 2,8
Vplate.........60 Vplate peak....150; Iplate if Vgrid1 is 0......does not exceed 0,5 mA; SmA/V.....2,5+/-o.8
Vgrid2.........45 Vgrid2 peak....120
Enjoy it!

[Brymus]

Thank You Zap !!!!!

[gtudoran]

Check the other place i've post a schematic that use a 1J18b - a tube booster. You could also use 6n17b or 6n17b as rick sugested.

Best regards,
Gabriel Tudoran
Analog Sound

[Ben N]

Gabriel, got a link to that booster schemo?
TIA

[Zapp Brannigan]

Check the other place i've post a schematic that use a 1J18b - a tube booster. You could also use 6n17b or 6n17b as rick sugested.

Guys, 6n17b are good in high-voltage schemes as a direct replacement for 12ax7, it is just an information to think about.

[gtudoran]

I've used 6n17b and 6n16b @ 30v and everything was smooth and clear but you must do some math for the parts.

Best regards,
Gabriel Tudoran
Analog Sound

[Zapp Brannigan]

No one argues that 6n16b or 6n17b will work good under low voltage, but they were designed for Low Freq amplification in military radio tranmitters as full analog to 6n3p or 6n2p, and if so why should we restrict their potential? Isn't it better to build some kinda preamp or pedal like Soldano GTO? And by the way, in low voltage schemes 6n23p are much better, but they are not so small.

[gtudoran]

Indeed Zapp 6n23p is a nice tube but not so small.... but you ideea with a Soldano GTO is verry nicee i think i will try to build one (i have about 30 pcs of 6n16b and 20 of 6n17b) . I will post my booster schematic this night... i'm @work right now .

Best regards,
Gabriel Tudoran
Analog Sound

[moonbird]

Hi there - did anything come of this design? thx.

[gtudoran]

This is a preamp stage useing the 6n16b-v russian double triode:


And this is a amp stage that uses 1P24B russian penthode.


You could also drive a pair or headphones with this penthode, directly without the output transforrmer.

Best regards,
Gabriel Tudoran
Analog Sound

[Ben N]

Thanks, Gabriel. Those look like they would pair up nicely. For an ampish overdrive, perhaps one could use a small-signal pentode stage (like a 1J29, of which I have a few, or 1J18) after the preamp-or would the preamp with tonestack have enough drive left to saturate the pentode?

[MetalGuy]

No one argues that 6n16b or 6n17b will work good under low voltage, but they were designed for Low Freq amplification in military radio tranmitters as full analog to 6n3p or 6n2p, and if so why should we restrict their potential? Isn't it better to build some kinda preamp or pedal like Soldano GTO? And by the way, in low voltage schemes 6n23p are much better, but they are not so small.

If you want to get the most from those two tubes you should run them at normal high voltages. For 6N16B - 160-200V, for 6N17B - 200-300V. This advice comes from experience.
6N16B is good for clean and some mild overdrive and crunch sounds. When overdirven heavily it will distort in a very unpleasant way unlike 6N17B which most of the time (but depending on the schematic) can be substituted for 12AX7. With two 6N17Bs you can produce some really wild high gain stuff. As I said this apllies if these tubes are fed normal high voltages.
6N16B can be susbtituted for 6021 and 6N17B for 6112.

[Brymus]

Awesome info thanks for sharing guys.