learning circuit stages

Started by TheWaker43, June 20, 2010, 07:49:32 PM

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TheWaker43

help please
  I have moded and built only a handful of pedals using mostly online sources.  Now I would like to get a bit more in depth.  I often read of gain stage, input/output, clipping stages.  What exactly are these and how do I recognise them when I am reading a schematic.  My goal is to become a bit more intuitive when building/modding, you know, 'instinctively knowing what might sound good where'.  Not having to rely on printed sources, more trail and error with less error.  What is the best way to go about learning this?  Are there any good online resources?
Thanks
casey

fpaul

Recommend Geofex "technology of the ...", building a butt load of pedals, looking at a butt load of schematics, and really learning how a transistor works (search function, google, etc).  Although I didn't really get it until I asked an engineer at work to explain what I wasn't getting.  Not that I know a lot or could actually give a coherent explaination.  I do recommend the Geofex stuff for starters though. 
Frank

phector2004

A good starting place is the beavis "How it Works" article
http://www.beavisaudio.com/techpages/HIW/hiw1.gif

Tons of great stuff on GEOFEX too. RG's Technology of the Fuzz Face article actually sucked me into this mess  :P

Circuits can be a bit difficult to understand... i stumbled on this a few weeks ago, not very powerful, but its useful to demonstrate, and has me understanding more and more every time I tinker. (Now I gotta learn to use SPICE simulations!)

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/
you can even download the applet if you so choose

Unless you have a background in this field, I'd say your best bet is to buy some spare parts, a multimeter, and experiment, and SEE what everything does

PRR

> gain stage, input/output, clipping stages.  What exactly are these

Same thing.

An amplifier gives gain from input to output. If you try to put too much signal through, it clips.

Sometimes it isn't the circuit, but how you use it.
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petemoore

  I have moded and built only a handful of pedals using mostly online sources.  Now I would like to get a bit more in depth. 
  The depth thing seems to take at least a while to wear off.
  I often read of gain stage, input/output, clipping stages.
  Gain is AC, the output peaks swing with greater voltage than the input.
  What exactly are these and how do I recognise them when I am reading a schematic.
  For gain, see LPB / Fetzer, look for the output from a transistor collector, an Fet drain, or an opamp output[s [OA's come in single, dual, quad amplifier packages.
  My goal is to become a bit more intuitive when building/modding, you know, 'instinctively knowing what might sound good where'.
  Perhaps consider what might sound good 'here' as a way to better understand what might sound good 'there', by getting what is 'there to be 'here [such as the cabinet/speaker Si or tube equipment] it gets easier to tell about it. I prefer 'here' to be a larger room, with reflective and dampening surfaces.
  Not having to rely on printed sources, more trail and error with less error.  What is the best way to go about learning this?
  If you are prepared to change the order to "Errors, Trials, Tribulations exacerbated by endless Frustrations", a breadboard and salvaged components is enough for a lifetime supply.
  Are there any good online resources?
  Yes, and there are some great ones also.
  I skimmed much of the math when reading for the most part, but I just found this resource:
  http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=Kahns+Academy&d=4992006229067540&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=dfa0d0cb,a9582575
  I'm finding it quite helpful so far, thank you Kahn Academy !
  There are literally thousands of ways to hit brick walls, I have tried many of them. Some actually hint at a point which can be chiseled at...ie there's work involved and the tapping of brick and resource take time, focus, efforts aimed at having comprehension replace frustration.
  You exist in a time when it is extremely easy to learn about "abstract phenomenon".   
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

petemoore

  A great first step is figuring out what is involved in producing AC gain, using DC power.
  Er...I meant second step, first step is learing the difference between AC and DC:
  http://geofex.com/Article_Folders/Power-supplies/powersup.htm
  "how capacitors work" google, Wiki etc.
  Which explains about 'fixed frequency AC''  In a gain stage there is:
  DC supply: a steady, fixed voltage [easier said than done, for effects though a simple 9v battery sets the standard.
  Various AC frequencies produced by the various frequencies at which the strings vibrating over the pickup produce.
  Ok...AC and DC are different.
  The AC which the wall plug and appliances use to do thier work is a 'fixed frequency'' [60 cycles per second = 60CPS hum that can be hard to get rid of].
  Mixed AC: as created by strings vibrating at various frequencies. All musical sources which plug into electronic devices such as amplifiers transfer 'small signal AC''...frequencies which vary by many octaves, often more than one frequency [say if you play two notes], the electronic analog [as put out by a pickup and travels through the signal path to the speaker, through the air, also part of the signal path up to the eardrums].
  Caps block DC and can be used to some extent to control frequency, very useful for keeping DC where the amplifier devices can use it, separating gain stages.
  For the experimental trials, always test for non-shorted condition of power supply rails to DC circuit before applying power, observe polarity of all polarized components.
  The Data Sheets can be found for most components.
  I found it empowering to think of electronics like water...DC is a reservoir, how full = what potential 'pressure = voltage'.
  AC is like waves, the distance between the peaks is their frequency.
  Block the waves by lowering the ceiling and the waveforms are 'distorted'.
  Take water from the reservoir and run it through a small tube [a lot of 'resistance' to current flow].
  Take water from the reservoir by blowing the dam and you have massive current flow, but the pressure [voltage] drops quickly.
  To get rid of most of the waves you can fill a reservoir and have a drain tube near the surface filling another reservoir [at a lower level]. At the top of the drain tube, only the peaks of the wave run down the tube making only little 'ripples' in the next reservoir as they're mixing with it's volume of water which is much much larger than the amount coming in in small surges.
 
Convention creates following, following creates convention.

candidate

Quote from: petemoore on June 21, 2010, 02:15:51 AM
  Caps block DC and can be used to some extent to control frequency, very useful for keeping DC where the amplifier devices can use it, separating gain stages.

Biasing these stages "individually", and then worrying about how it interacts...or something else?

petemoore

#7
Biasing these stages "individually", and then worrying about how it interacts...or something else?
 which stages are ''these''?
 What is "it" ?
 Something else ? ''If it's not the one thing, it's three others''.
  DC blockers are used so the circuit input/output can be connected to something without risk of putting DC on the connection.
Convention creates following, following creates convention.