Schumann Pedals

modsquad · August 25, 2010, 02:18:32 PM

I don't think the point is that neat wiring is the be all to end all. I think the point is that the level of "birdsnestiness" that the wiring in that picture attains is ridiculous. You don't have to run wires at right angles, etc. My stuff is pretty cluttered in the boxes. However, if I was going to sell something I would clean it up quite a bit. There is a way to be neat and compact with your wiring and not "cross the streams" and cause sound issues. IMO, and MO only, that rats nest is a reflection of quality and pride in one's work. Its like buying a car with the mirrors slightly hanging and a cracked bumper. It works just fine but would you buy it, compared to something else in the price range.

DougH · August 25, 2010, 03:54:48 PM

Quote from: modsquad on August 25, 2010, 02:18:32 PM
"cross the streams"

Boy, does that bring back some funny memories... Crossing streams, sword fighting, etc...

tubelectron · August 25, 2010, 04:16:35 PM

Hi all,

Here's what I call a neat/pretty job wiring : it's well designed and executed, easy to service AND OF COURSE efficient. Otherwise, it's not. The innards of a SA112/DR504 HIWATT amp is shown below for the ultimate reference (in tube amp wiring) :

About pedals, the wirings from John Lyons in his releases (see the "pictures" subject in this forum) are to be considered as references also. I think that what he does is... Efficient, indeed...

A+!

Pigyboy · August 25, 2010, 04:26:15 PM

I love all the different views

I started the thread here and not on another forum because most guys with one of these pedals are definitely not going to let someone go poking around inside. We have some adventurous souls here who would ford the waters of spaghetti wiring-dom to reveal what is the truth behind these monstrosities. We have to know now.
And..
Where did he get the knobs?

Taylor · August 25, 2010, 04:33:16 PM

My goto source for nice knobs is Marvac. But they don't have anything quite like that. Since he's in Brooklyn I think, I wouldn't be surprised if he bought them in a little hole-in-the-wall Russian surplus shop or something.

Galego · August 25, 2010, 05:30:24 PM

Quote from: tubelectron on August 25, 2010, 04:16:35 PM
Hi all,

Here's what I call a neat/pretty job wiring : it's well designed and executed, easy to service AND OF COURSE efficient. Otherwise, it's not. The innards of a SA112/DR504 HIWATT amp is shown below for the ultimate reference (in tube amp wiring) :

About pedals, the wirings from John Lyons in his releases (see the "pictures" subject in this forum) are to be considered as references also. I think that what he does is... Efficient, indeed...

A+!

This is the amp i built, i've seen better looking wiring (it's a kit), but it works, i have no noise issues whatsoever. I think wiring should be essentially practical. Who cares about the looks, it's not like you're always looking inside it.

Taylor · August 25, 2010, 05:41:07 PM

In the older days of electronics, they were built with the expectation that they would be in use for decades. So with that in mind, clean innards (but which don't sacrifice practicality) are essential. Because you won't always be looking in it, but over the years, other people will be looking into it. For many of us younger people, this doesn't matter because we were raised in an age of short electronics lifespan. The whole "disposable society" rant is so cliche that I won't repeat it, but you know where I'm going.

For people who did care about serviceability, clean, understandable insides were important. I just build lowly effects pedals but I try my best to make them clean inside because I like the idea of easy service, even years or decades from now. And from a production standpoint, doing a clean PCB which eliminates that wiring mess makes life so much easier and quicker. There's just no good argument in favor of pedals that look like that.

I notice you took the time to bend your wires at right angles and bundle them in long parallel lines. This is of course a visual concern, not a practical one. So you do care somewhat about keeping it clean and tidy inside. And that seems about right. It's not about making things perfect, but taking some care to balance crosstalk and noise issues with understandability.

tubelectron · August 25, 2010, 06:36:55 PM

Hi Taylor,

QuoteIn the older days of electronics, they were built with the expectation that they would be in use for decades. So with that in mind, clean innards (but which don't sacrifice practicality) are essential. Because you won't always be looking in it, but over the years, other people will be looking into it

This would be the written definition of the HIWATT wiring I pictured some posts before. Moreover, despite the neat wiring job, the placement of the components has been designed to achieve the shortest logical routing... As we all know, HIWATTS are excellent sounding amps (I had 2 of them in the past), so that's why I call it "ultimate reference" in wiring work.

A+!

Paul Marossy · August 25, 2010, 08:54:27 PM

Those Hiwatt amps are like works of art with the layout and wiring in them. You can be sure that everything was done for a reason (and not to make it pretty). It's probably more coincincidence that it looks so "pretty" than intentional. Form follows function here, and it looks to me like it was designed to be as efficient as possible in terms of reliability, problem free operation and minimal use of materials.

petemoore · August 25, 2010, 09:45:07 PM

It's all about pre and post analysis, the next one should be even better until there's really no room for improvement.
Some builds show it, some don't, and it's all in the logic of the eye of the beholder.

Pigyboy · August 26, 2010, 03:37:26 AM

Hot on the Trail of a few Schumann pedals. This guys knows what he has but apparently hates J. Schumann for sticking him with pedals that now have problems. Weird situation. He has stuff that does not work but he knows it is worth money. He thinks no one else can fix them so they are worthless but valuable. I am waiting till he runs out of weed then I will make that offer he cannot refuse!

DougH · August 26, 2010, 07:51:19 AM

My previous rant was about shades of gray (hopefully that was obvious). There's "neat and understandable", which makes perfect sense. Here's the innards of an amp I built, which I feel falls into this category:

It's not going to win a TGP beauty contest, but I can easily understand the circuitry without consulting the schematic. That makes it extremely easy to service.

Then there's "stupidly pretty" which we have all seen plenty of examples of.

I'll leave to you all to draw the lines between them. It is somewhat subjective, and not always easily defined. But like pr0n, I know it when I see it.

Paul Marossy · August 26, 2010, 10:04:11 AM

Quote from: DougH on August 26, 2010, 07:51:19 AM
My previous rant was about shades of gray (hopefully that was obvious). There's "neat and understandable", which makes perfect sense. Here's the innards of an amp I built, which I feel falls into this category:

It's not going to win a TGP beauty contest, but I can easily understand the circuitry without consulting the schematic. That makes it extremely easy to service.

Then there's "stupidly pretty" which we have all seen plenty of examples of.

I'll leave to you all to draw the lines between them. It is somewhat subjective, and not always easily defined. But like pr0n, I know it when I see it.

Nothing wrong with your amp in my book.

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Schumann Pedals